Z9…A Need To Vent

[IainD]

I bought a Z 24-70 f2.8 from my local shop yesterday and the proprietor told me he was getting stock of Z9s in fairly frequently. I think the smaller stores are more likely to get you moving quickly. Of course Australia is not necessarily in the same place as other countries.

 

[fcotterill]

A recent, in fact current thread trying to estimate production and delivery of the Z9

 

[Venkatesh VT]

Yeah, but the A1 is over a year old now so it’s not that surprising.

I had ordered A1 6 months back & it took me only one month to get it . Thx to that delivery I made full use of the migratory season in India across the country I can’t also forget how 500 PF was not available even after an year ( I got it after 14 months )
Also in India another Mystrey is why Z9 ( street price) is costing practically same as A1 ( INR 4.75 lakhs VS 5 lakhs )

 

[RichF]

Love to find a way to get another unit so my wife could use it But I suspect I will need to wait even though I asked a small B&M retailer to put me on the list over the summer. The list seems to be disappeared when I got my unit from NPS

 

[mozman98]

Up until now I've just lurked, but wanted to chime in about Best Buy and hopefully offer some hope to those still waiting. I was able to order a Z9 from their site today for delivery in 2-3 weeks. They had availability on and off today for a few hours (1PM - 4:30PM PST). The first few times I tried to order it wouldn't go through and returned a generic error. The camera would then go out of stock. It came back in stock 3-4 more times within the next couple of hours and eventually I was able to complete the order.

My advice is to keep trying and use a browser extension to track their stock. I had mine set to check every two minutes; it also helps that I'm online most of the day.

For those that may not be aware BB has a 15 day return window on this camera and a 15% restocking fee. I wouldn't order from them unless you fully intend on keeping it or you don't mind reselling it to recoup.

I understand the skepticism so here's a screen grab of my email. Good luck to the OP in getting one soon.

 

[mozman98]

Nikon isn't dumb. If they had released an economically competitive equivalent of an R5 before they released the Z9, the Z9 sales would NEVER had reached the numbers they did.

I don't believe this was strategic in any way. I think it's safe to say their AF algorithms needed major work and this is why their previous cameras weren't on par with other offerings. The flagship just happened to be the next product in line and the first to reap the benefits of their continued AF developments.

 

[sid_19911991]

I have been a Nikon user since 1969. FTN’s, Nikkormat, 8008S, N90S, 13 DSLR’s as well as countless lenses and accessories. I have only had 2 repairs on my equipment in all those years. I have never considered any other brand until today. If I could sell all my equipment and get enough to jump ship, I would do it without looking back. Just read another post on social media about another NPS member getting a second Z9 body from Nikon. This is simply bulls**t IMHO. I am not a whiner or crybaby by nature but after waiting in line for months my patience has worn very thin.
Thanks for listening.

I think semi-conductor shortage will likely continue due to the Ukraine-Russia for the foreseeable future! Meaning, the availability of cameras will continue to be an issue.

 

[abc123brian]

I had ordered A1 6 months back & it took me only one month to get it . Thx to that delivery I made full use of the migratory season in India across the country I can’t also forget how 500 PF was not available even after an year ( I got it after 14 months )
Also in India another Mystrey is why Z9 ( street price) is costing practically same as A1 ( INR 4.75 lakhs VS 5 lakhs )

I ordered my Z9 from Adorama on announcement day, 30 minutes after it was available for order, and received it 12 January, so about 3 weeks after it was released. No NPS. I had it for almost all of birding season here in Florida and get to use it with my amazing 500mm PF and it saved me over $1000 compared to buying an A1.

 

[abc123brian]

Yeah. That's why Nikon has to get Sony to make a lot of their sensors for them.

You need to view Sony’s sensor business similar to TSMC’s chip business. They are a fabrication business and are not designing the sensors for Nikon, rather just manufacturing Nikon designed sensors. Similar to TSMC manufacturing Apple’s chips, not designing them. I’m sure some of the low end cameras might use some off the shelf sensors, but to say Sony makes Nikon’s sensors is not quite what you seem to think it is.

Not really. There's a lot of people who love Nikon and held out long enough to finally see something tangible in Nikon's future. Sadly, it cost $5500 to get what the competition has had for years and at lower price points, so yeah, it's understandable that the demand would be higher for the Z9 because in the realm of Nikon, for Nikon users/loyalist, it's the only game in town that manages to bring anything notable to the table.

Meanwhile, Sony has had stacked sensor and top tier AF since 2017. Canon since 2020 (AF wise).

Sony's customer base has more options and is diversified across multiple camera bodies such as the A7SIII or the A7RIV or the A9/II. Nikon doesn't have equivalent competitions in those realms, not realistically. You could argue for the Z7II and the A7RIV. If Sony didn't have those cameras then suddenly released the A1, the demand for it would have been insane as well.

Watch how many Z9s hit the used market when a Z8 or w/e shows it face with a lower price point and comparable AF. The Z9 sales are high because if you want to be in the Nikon ecosystem and have AF that isn't several years behind the competition, it's what you have to buy. Nikon isn't dumb. If they had released an economically competitive equivalent of an R5 before they released the Z9, the Z9 sales would NEVER had reached the numbers they did.

Which cameras from Sony or Canon provides you more than the Z9 for less than $5500? IMO, the Z9 is a bargain for what it offers. The other Z cameras are all very good cameras. Where they lack is in AF tracking, mainly the automated tracking. Sony’s big selling cameras were the A7iii and A7Riii/A7Riv and Nikon had cameras to compete with them. The A7Siii and A9/ii were more specialized cameras and Nikon did not have a camera to compete with, but I don’t think either of those cameras would impact Z9 or A1 sales.

 

[John Navitsky]

He’s tired of waiting on Nikon Z9 I literally let him know Sony A1 are readily available.
Maybe you mind your own damn business and don’t me tell what I can I “drag in here”

ok, if you didn’t mean anything by it, i’ll take you at your word, apologies

 

[Butlerkid]

I completely agree that it's extremely frustrating. I preordered on the day of release and have yet to receive my Z9. My most recent info from B&H is that it may be another month (at least). I'm sticking with B&H because of the tax savings. If that is not a consideration for you, there seem to be a good many non-NPS people who have secured a Z9 by keeping tabs on Best Buy (stock appears randomly and briefly), or ordering through Nikon USA, or through a regional or local dealer.

My thought on Nikon's policy of favoring even very recent NPS orders is that's it's a pure business decision. If pros are becoming more interested in the Z9, then they sooner or later will become more interested in Z lenses, etc. Pros have to be a larger and more consistent source of revenue from flagship products than we amateurs.

There are several brick and mortar stores that you can order from that offer no tax and free shipping. B&H is my "normal" store for shopping, but on high demand items I support smaller, locally owned stores like Murphy's in Kentucky. When the D850 was in high demand, I called up Murphy's and was able to get the camera within a few weeks. And the grip was back ordered everywhere, but they got that for me, also. They are a strong NPS store and while the quantity of product they get is lower than B&H, they have far fewer people who order from them. My message is you are not locked into B&H.....

 

[RikWriter]

You need to view Sony’s sensor business similar to TSMC’s chip business. They are a fabrication business and are not designing the sensors for Nikon, rather just manufacturing Nikon designed sensors. Similar to TSMC manufacturing Apple’s chips, not designing them. I’m sure some of the low end cameras might use some off the shelf sensors, but to say Sony makes Nikon’s sensors is not quite what you seem to think it is.

My point was that the reason A1s are available and Z9s aren't has less to do with demand than it does with Nikon's inability to produce their own sensors.

 

[Subutai]

Which cameras from Sony or Canon provides you more than the Z9 for less than $5500? IMO, the Z9 is a bargain for what it offers. The other Z cameras are all very good cameras. Where they lack is in AF tracking, mainly the automated tracking. Sony’s big selling cameras were the A7iii and A7Riii/A7Riv and Nikon had cameras to compete with them. The A7Siii and A9/ii were more specialized cameras and Nikon did not have a camera to compete with, but I don’t think either of those cameras would impact Z9 or A1 sales.

I don't think it's so much what the Z9 offers for $5500 - which is no doubt a bargain compared to the competition at MSRP prices, but rather, in the rest of the Nikon lineup there are significant technological gaps in a lot of areas between the Z6/Z7 cameras compared to what is available in the competition.

As a customer, there are certain specifications that one would want to be met when purchasing a product and if a particular brand doesn't offer a lineup that fully meets those specifications then suddenly they do offer a singular product that does, it becomes your only option if you want to remain in that brand. There are a lot of people that opt to go with Nikon purely on subjective preferences such as ergonomics, colors, rendering, etc. The main thing I believe a lot of these people would agree on that Nikon was missing, all those subjective preferences aside, was the latest in modern AF technology. The only camera that offers those features today, in the Nikon line-up, is the Z9.

So it is my opinion that you have a significant amount of people who would not usually be Z9 customers stretching their budgets to get the Z9 purely so they can both A. get the subjective preferences of what they want from a system and B. get the latest in modern AF technology.

 

[Subutai]

In comparison to Nikon, Sony and Canon have better options in terms of camera bodies that serve to meet a wider array of customer needs without forcing them to go all out on the top tier body to get what they want out of a system. I've used all three systems extensively and the Z6/Z7 II versions while great for still photography, were not in the realm of being competitive with Sony or Canon's latest bodies or, in the case of Sony, even their older bodies from 2017. The only area Nikon was competitive was in IQ, but not AF. People can debate it all they want, but it simply isn't true.

The Z9 is 5500 to get performance that finally exceeds what was available in Sony 5 years ago. Canon 2 years ago.

 

[John Navitsky]

I've used all three systems extensively and the Z6/Z7 II versions while great for still photography, were not in the realm of being competitive with Sony or Canon's latest bodies

if nikon could have made the z6/z7ii cameras perform better when they were released, they would have. just like if canon could have made the rp perform better, it would have. if canon could have built a stacked sensor before the r3, it would have.

while there is planning involved here, i don’t think it’s to force you into a body you don’t want. if you want a lower end body with better performance, there it’ll come.

 

[Butlerkid]

Guys - give the Nikon versus Sony debate a rest...... please......

 

[Subutai]

Guys - give the Nikon versus Sony debate a rest...... please......

Sure, no problem.

It's a forum though, so opinionated discussions are to be expected. Comparisons even. I think we were all remaining civil. I'm a fan of all three systems for different reasons - hence why I have pre-orders in for the Z9. Doesn't mean I can't provide a point of view from the other side of the table.

If Nikon had more third party lenses, I'd be all in with them as I prefer them over the other brands (although the R5 is an amazing camera ergonomically and the intuitiveness of its interface), but in the end I go with the system that has the most flexibility (price/performance/native) in lenses and that's Sony atm.

 

[Venkatesh VT]

I ordered my Z9 from Adorama on announcement day, 30 minutes after it was available for order, and received it 12 January, so about 3 weeks after it was released. No NPS. I had it for almost all of birding season here in Florida and get to use it with my amazing 500mm PF and it saved me over $1000 compared to buying an A1.

Z9 was too bulky for my needs. I like comapct bodoes & A1 +200-600 fitted my needs very well (while 500 Pf was a great lens with my D500/850 it lacked he flexibity of a zoom)

 

[DaveR]

Guys - give the Nikon versus Sony debate a rest...... please......

I get sick of it too. My solution was to set most of the Sony users to ignore. Makes the forum much more enjoyable

 

[arbitrage]

There is really only one camera out there that can compare to Z9 performance/MPs for less cost and that is the Canon R5. However, it does have some limitations compared to the Z9 because it lacks the stacked sensor. But it also has some benefits over the Z9 including better BEAF, a better suite of AF modes (IMO, YMMV) and much better rear buttons and better options to customize those buttons. It also has a nicer EVF excepting the slideshow. The Z9 has a number of features over the R5 like the slideshow free EVF, selectable FPS in ES and I do like having the built-in grip most of the time although sometimes it is nice to have the option to go grip-less.

I think the current pricing tiers are in line with the performance/MP/stacked sensor features in each camera. The R5 lacks the stacked sensor so deserves the lowest price. The R3 lacks the MPs but I believe has better AF than the Z9 (I haven't tested the R3 yet...will have it on April 1st) and has the stacked sensor. I think it does justify its $500 higher price. The A1 has everything...best in class AF, best in class customization, stacked sensor, highest AF calc/s, highest res EVF, highest FPS at high res, highest EVF refresh etc. So again I do think it justifies the additional $500 over the R3 and the $1000 over the Z9. Future Canon R1 if high MP and fast stacked sensor with built-in grip may justify the likely $7000 price it will ask. You do also have to consider cost of battery grip for better ergonomics with R5 and A1 but those can be had fairly cheap used and then some people don't even like using them or just want a small pinky extender plate for even less additional cost. So as always YMMV.

 

[KimM]

Ordered an A1 and couple new lenses for my wife at Mike’s on Sunday. It’s on the way

What did you get for her? I had an experience at Mike's that didn't feel too good..No fault of theirs. I had placed a 20% deposit on 600mm and was told that Sony/Japan was making and then flying these over. Four weeks. At 6 weeks I started seeing others posting images from their brand new 600mm. When I reached back out to them about this they said, yes this happens. Bigger stores take things promised. Life just isn't fair. All this said, one (of several) of the reasons I left Nikon was this on-going shipping/service issue to non-NPS members. I placed a Z9 order the day it opened for orders with a smaller store. I am sure I would still be waiting. I do not regret the jump to Sony. The tracking system and the fact that I can use the 600/A1 hand held or with monopod has been a game changer.

 

[abc123brian]

There is really only one camera out there that can compare to Z9 performance/MPs for less cost and that is the Canon R5. However, it does have some limitations compared to the Z9 because it lacks the stacked sensor. But it also has some benefits over the Z9 including better BEAF, a better suite of AF modes (IMO, YMMV) and much better rear buttons and better options to customize those buttons. It also has a nicer EVF excepting the slideshow. The Z9 has a number of features over the R5 like the slideshow free EVF, selectable FPS in ES and I do like having the built-in grip most of the time although sometimes it is nice to have the option to go grip-less.

I think the current pricing tiers are in line with the performance/MP/stacked sensor features in each camera. The R5 lacks the stacked sensor so deserves the lowest price. The R3 lacks the MPs but I believe has better AF than the Z9 (I haven't tested the R3 yet...will have it on April 1st) and has the stacked sensor. I think it does justify its $500 higher price. The A1 has everything...best in class AF, best in class customization, stacked sensor, highest AF calc/s, highest res EVF, highest FPS at high res, highest EVF refresh etc. So again I do think it justifies the additional $500 over the R3 and the $1000 over the Z9. Future Canon R1 if high MP and fast stacked sensor with built-in grip may justify the likely $7000 price it will ask. You do also have to consider cost of battery grip for better ergonomics with R5 and A1 but those can be had fairly cheap used and then some people don't even like using them or just want a small pinky extender plate for even less additional cost. So as always YMMV.

I’m hearing different reports on the R3 regarding AF. I haven’t used it so I dont have my own opinion, but I am reading many people preferring the R5. Seems strange, but they might have something to correct in firmware. Regarding A1 being best in class, don’t forget the Z9 matches that highest AF calculations/sec, the Z9 has a faster readout time, has the dual stream tech to provide a better EVF experience (which I think is going to be subjective), has faster card slots supported by more card manufacturers and lower prices, has better video specs and eye AF in video. All this for $1000 less than an A1. For me, these advantages alone would make me choose the Z9 over the A1 even with the price being equal. I’m sure Nikon will resolve the minor AF complaints as they had promised an AF update when announcing the camera. More importantly, you need to choose the system that works best for your personal situation.

 

[Venkatesh VT]

I’m hearing different reports on the R3 regarding AF. I haven’t used it so I dont have my own opinion, but I am reading many people preferring the R5. Seems strange, but they might have something to correct in firmware. Regarding A1 being best in class, don’t forget the Z9 matches that highest AF calculations/sec, the Z9 has a faster readout time, has the dual stream tech to provide a better EVF experience (which I think is going to be subjective), has faster card slots supported by more card manufacturers and lower prices, has better video specs and eye AF in video. All this for $1000 less than an A1. For me, these advantages alone would make me choose the Z9 over the A1 even with the price being equal. I’m sure Nikon will resolve the minor AF complaints as they had promised an AF update when announcing the camera. More importantly, you need to choose the system that works best for your personal situation.

A1 can use V 90 SD cards which are much cheaper & still do a decent FPS as well as videos
A1s AF is built on the iterations of A9 & A9 ii & that’s the reason Z9’s AF struggles in some use cases (since the earlier iterations of Z were found wanting in fast action AF)
While all brands have competing cameras with very good features they are on different time lines as far as technology is concerned & that differentiation does have an effect on the finished product in the hands of the customer
Time will tell what each brand has to offer in the next iteration with what cost factor. Then we can truly judge all the brands in a fair manner

 

[fcotterill]

Up the frustrations posted about camera Y of brand x and this triggers a brand war....and time and again we know which brand gets flung into yet another Nikon thread....
1. Anyone who invokes/grasps at opting for a Flagship camera of one brand over another might first consider the optics, not least costs of telephotos.

2. Yet again the crux is the Entire ILC System. And most here are deeply invested in only 1 system.

3. Some weeks back, We discussed and agreed to cut the brand vitriol but yet again it's the repeat posters....

Back on topic, availability of the Z9 is improving in most countries, especially in the USA where you have some retailers compared to many other countries

 

[DaveR]

I think the current pricing tiers are in line with the performance/MP/stacked sensor features in each camera.

I broadly agree with much of what you say but I wonder if the Z9 has the potential to improve on performance in a big way in the future, I sure hope it does. Overall using the Z9 for the past couple of months I get the impression the firmware could be much improved in terms of AF, customization and other areas. It kinda feels like it's been rushed out to me. We're only on version 1 so I'm hoping there is much more to come from this camera. The Sony A1 has been out for some time so I don't imagine there will be any improvements to come with firmware updates. It has matured but the Z9 is just a baby.

Everyone seems to have made up their minds and given their verdict on it but I think that may be premature.