Z9 vs 500 F/4 - Help me spend my money :)

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I did a lot of investigation of possible lens choices to expand the telephoto/birding capability of the Z8/9. Here is a summary of what I believe to be some of the best choices.

1. Older, cheap exotics: You can find older top quality functioning F mount lenses for under two grand. The drawback is that these lenses tend to be very large and very heavy.
2. 500mm PF: this lens is really highly rated for quality and it is one of the most effective reasonably priced birding lenses in the F mount. They can be found used for roughly $1800.
3. Z 180-600 zoom: New design, amazingly inexpensive. Not an S lens but has had excellent optical reports despite some limitations. Lens is oversubscribed with a long waiting list. Cost about $1600. Lens is relatively large and heavy.
4. Z 100-400 mm zoom:: A well-regarded zoom option in a S lens. Many prefer this as a zoom option working with a longer prime. Most likely above 2 grand but might find some used slightly under.
5. Z 400mm f4.5: A prime quality lens that is optically close in image quality to the reference top quality prime the 400mm f2.8. I have this lens and it is incredibly sharp, will outperform other lenses so far on this list except for the 500mm pf. You can use it effectively with a teleconverter out to about 560 and less so out to 800mm using a 2x tc. Cost about 3 grand but you might catch a used one for a bit less.
6. Used late model F mount super primes including 400mm f2.8 and 600mm f4: These are state of the art top quality prime lenses that cost 14 grand or more. Look around carefully and you will find some of these available in the 5-6 grand range. These are lighter and more current than the older models but significantly heavier and lacking in features in the latest Z super primes.
7. Z 600mm f6.3 vr s: The apparent successor to the F 500 PF this lens is superb optically and has been compared favorably to the super prime 600's. I have one of these, cost is about $5600. Not as fast as the super prime 600. Get most of the optical performance of the $16 grand 600mm f4 at a third of the price. This is a very effective lens with a 1.4tc at 840mm and can be used out to 1200mm if the subject is large in the frame.
8. Z 800mm F6.3 vr s: An amazingly effective lens it is the equal or better in its optical range than anything else out there subject only to the super expensive and super heavy F 800mm f5.6. This lens sells new for $6500 but you can find used ones for $5500. I have one of these. Need to work in conjunction with a shorter lens for anything under 800mm but it will handle anything possible longer.
9. Z 400mm f2.8: Priced at about $14 grand it is the reference lens at this focal length. It can work both with an internal tc and external tc to provide options at various longer focal lengths. Choice between this and the next lens for the ideal birding lens.
10. Z 600mm f4 tc vr: At $16 grand it is the ultimate birding lens for many. Through use of teleconverters will rival the 800mm at all longer lengths. Many prefer this lens as it is both the best 600mm lens and also equal to the 800mm lens.
 
Personally I think it is borderline lunacy financially to consider the Z 600PF for the OP, he can get used 500PF's for about 1800. Yes the 600PF sharp, fast AF and very light, but it is 5600... at f6.3. If weight is not an issue and you shoot mammals, owls or whatever in low light, you are in a hide, on a tripod eeking out shots at 10000 iso at 1/25s shutter speed, those images are at 25600 ISO with a 6.3 and might not even focus. At that point you will not get the shot at 6.3.
If portability is more important for the OP then go ahead but for the price of the 600PF you can get a used Z9 and a 500PF, or quite close to that.. With a 500 F4 you also get 700 5.6 with the TC. That stop and a third matters more than anything in certain scenarios. And matters nothing in others.
 
Personally I think it is borderline lunacy financially to consider the Z 600PF for the OP, he can get used 500PF's for about 1800. Yes the 600PF sharp, fast AF and very light, but it is 5600... at f6.3. If weight is not an issue and you shoot mammals, owls or whatever in low light, you are in a hide, on a tripod eeking out shots at 10000 iso at 1/25s shutter speed, those images are at 25600 ISO with a 6.3 and might not even focus. At that point you will not get the shot at 6.3.
If portability is more important for the OP then go ahead but for the price of the 600PF you can get a used Z9 and a 500PF, or quite close to that.. With a 500 F4 you also get 700 5.6 with the TC. That stop and a third matters more than anything in certain scenarios. And matters nothing in others.
I agree in 100%.


F6.3 is...unfortunatelly f6.3.
F4 vs F6.3 its a huge, huge difference. Thats why supertelephoto with F4 and F2.8 costs many thousands of dollars.
With f6.3 You are probably out (especially in fast moving action) - at the best photography time - when the sun wake up and when sun go to bed.
And exactly...with TC 1.4 III you have 700 5.6 with exellent IQ.
Even in aviation photography, when light its not a problem (usually plenty of light) fast glasses sometimes are necessary:

"Dark Rider"
1000013055.jpg
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Sorry for my English.
 
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I agree in 100%.

Even in aviation photography, when light its not a problem (usually plenty of light) fast glasses sometimes are necessary:

"Dark Rider"

Sorry for my English.
Holy hell...That image is purely awesome. Can you share how you captured it?

Also, A TON of food for thought from many helpful members here. I am time-limited at the moment and can't wait till later to read responses closer and probably pose some follow-up questions. What I do notice is that the responses appear about 50/50 on lens vs body...SO I don't feel so crazy now about the fretting I am doing over making the right decision.
 
Premise: I have the money for EITHER a Z9 OR 500 f/4 (hopefully E FL), but not both.

Ok all, (disclaimer) I am going to ask a question I might generally chuckle at if I saw on here because I know there is likely a string of questions headed my way with so many variables like what, when, who, how, hobbyist/pro, potato, pataaaato, etc.. But I AM going to buy a new piece of gear and need some constructive nudges. I currently have a D850 with decent (24mm up to 500mm) coverage for whatever I shoot, whether the grandbaby, sports, or a hunting raptor. So, on to the meat of the question...

Upgrade to Z9 or get a 500 f/4 and restart the savings process for Z9 later down the road?

Since obviously, either is going to be a dream to have on hand, this is where my thought process becomes blurred.
A snazzy new Z9, "in theory," helps ALL my existing glass and has far superior video capability, which I would like to explore, and the ever-debated YSWYG view-finder. Theoretical glass gains come from:​
  1. improved AF accuracy, full AF sensor coverage, substantially improved focus modes w/ subject detection
  2. higher frame rate for more opportunities in sports and wildlife
  3. no worries about calibration (especially in zooms that can vary from end to end) *even from a tripod, I have never been blown away by my 200-500 unless in live view
Getting the amazing 500 F/4 can be a game changer for its extra stop, sharpness, weather-sealed build, and AF performance compared to 200-500, which seems to be almost always at 500mm for me. The F/4 glass was my original plan for my saved funds. The water got muddied when I thought about what the Z9 brings to the table in a more across-the-board and future-looking approach. I know, I know, the D850 can and does produce amazing quality, and when it locks focus, generally speaking, it matches the IQ of the Z9. Alongside that, more practice and shooting leads to better tracking by the guy behind the viewfinder who now could be producing creamy 500 f/4 goodness. See how it goes off course in my brain? Agghhhh, help me get the water more clear!!!​
Take my opinion with a grain of salt as i'm just your regular everyday hobbyist, but if i was in the same position i'd go for a Z9 to get more shots in focus and deal with the lens situation later, since the lens on the table is F-mount. I was in the same position 2.5 years ago before any nikon body with subject detection was really worth it and now i'd kill a kitten for a Z9/8 and whatever Z telephoto nikon releases since.
 
Like steve says .. Date the body marry the glass. Lens will serve you longer than the body but obviously a better glass will eventually be out! My am still in love with my 850 but am married to my z9. Z lenses are better .. Z 600PF is just awsome ... you have a very difficult call to make !! good luck
 
Agree the 600 pf is an awesome lens. I have one.

My photo partner shoots with the 500 pf and I have had the opportunity to compare the two lenses side by side. They are close to being equal in terms of sharpness but the 600mm has greater reach and will capture more detail. The other observation is that the 600 is amazingly compact and well-balanced and very easy to use handheld. Steve Perry did a couple videos on this lens that are worth viewing as well.
 
Agree the 600 pf is an awesome lens. I have one.

My photo partner shoots with the 500 pf and I have had the opportunity to compare the two lenses side by side. They are close to being equal in terms of sharpness but the 600mm has greater reach and will capture more detail. The other observation is that the 600 is amazingly compact and well-balanced and very easy to use handheld. Steve Perry did a couple videos on this lens that are worth viewing as well.
But it is not F4. And it is 5600usd. The OP is obviously trying to get as much for his money as possible, and wants a 500 F4. A 6.3 lens will lock you out of getting certain shots.
 
When I used the 200-500 as my main lens, then saved my nickels and dimes until I could buy the 500 f/5.6 PF, it was the biggest improvement in image quality I had yet experienced in my 50+ years as a photographer. I can only assume the same would be true with the 500 f/4. Just my 2 cents. :)
He also states his 200-500 is almost always at 500 so it is possible the extra 100mm of a 600 would be a bigger benefit, only he can figure that out. Either way, I’d have a difficult time spending a lot of money on F mount glass now.
 
Premise: I have the money for EITHER a Z9 OR 500 f/4 (hopefully E FL), but not both.

Ok all, (disclaimer) I am going to ask a question I might generally chuckle at if I saw on here because I know there is likely a string of questions headed my way with so many variables like what, when, who, how, hobbyist/pro, potato, pataaaato, etc.. But I AM going to buy a new piece of gear and need some constructive nudges. I currently have a D850 with decent (24mm up to 500mm) coverage for whatever I shoot, whether the grandbaby, sports, or a hunting raptor. So, on to the meat of the question...

Upgrade to Z9 or get a 500 f/4 and restart the savings process for Z9 later down the road?

Since obviously, either is going to be a dream to have on hand, this is where my thought process becomes blurred.
A snazzy new Z9, "in theory," helps ALL my existing glass and has far superior video capability, which I would like to explore, and the ever-debated YSWYG view-finder. Theoretical glass gains come from:​
  1. improved AF accuracy, full AF sensor coverage, substantially improved focus modes w/ subject detection
  2. higher frame rate for more opportunities in sports and wildlife
  3. no worries about calibration (especially in zooms that can vary from end to end) *even from a tripod, I have never been blown away by my 200-500 unless in live view
Getting the amazing 500 F/4 can be a game changer for its extra stop, sharpness, weather-sealed build, and AF performance compared to 200-500, which seems to be almost always at 500mm for me. The F/4 glass was my original plan for my saved funds. The water got muddied when I thought about what the Z9 brings to the table in a more across-the-board and future-looking approach. I know, I know, the D850 can and does produce amazing quality, and when it locks focus, generally speaking, it matches the IQ of the Z9. Alongside that, more practice and shooting leads to better tracking by the guy behind the viewfinder who now could be producing creamy 500 f/4 goodness. See how it goes off course in my brain? Agghhhh, help me get the water more clear!!!​
I also use a D850 and already own the Sigma 500mm f4 which is a fantastic lens with better IQ than both the Sigma 150-600 (that I also own) or Nikon 200-500 from examples I've seen. I use a 1.4TC which has a minimal effect on sharpness. My dilemma is that I would like a Z9 for the improved AF tracking and frame rate but cannot afford jto replace my F mount glass. Previous comments do seem to suggest that my F mount glass would actually work better with a Z9 and FTZII though which is encouraging but would I still be able to take advantage of the Z9's IBIS?
 
I have the 500/4e and love it. It couples extremely well with the TC 1.4. Although it is lighter than the g version, it is heavy. It was a permanent fixture on my D6 and now resides on my Z9. This combo is works well… if you are only 45, I’d get the 500e and keep using the D850 a bit longer. There will always be a newer/better camera coming down the pike in the coming years.

Having said that, I’m 80, and lugging the Z9 and 500/4 is a pain, so I find myself more and more carrying my Z8 with the 500pf; this is an excellent setup as well.
 
I already had the 500f4e fl paired with the D850 and got fantastic wildlife and BIF for 3 years. Then the Sony A9ii came out and to me that was a game changer with the speed of the autofocus and quantity detection points. Wide zone areas blew away my group focus with Nikon. So I went out and got the A9ii and the 600/f4 GM and never looked back. this year I was very intrigued by the news of Nikon releasing the 4.10 update and the reviews that the Z9 has supreme AF and coupled with bird subject detection and pre-release capture. I was torn between getting rid of all my Nikon gear and going fully Sony because I started with Nikon and something about their glass that I absolutely love. That all changed when I received quotes of $1300 to $1800 for my $11,000 500f/4 in perfect condition. It actually made me mad and it was like a slap in the face. I vowed to upgrade my Nikon gear. So I doubled down and got the Z9 and FTZ2 and it is perfect atop my beloved 500 lens. For Christmas I traded in my D500 and 200-500 for the Nikon Z8 and 135 f/1.8 plena and that is also a perfect combo for me. I have kept the D850 and 24-70 as it is amazing and has a special place for me as well.
 
I also use a D850 and already own the Sigma 500mm f4 which is a fantastic lens with better IQ than both the Sigma 150-600 (that I also own) or Nikon 200-500 from examples I've seen. I use a 1.4TC which has a minimal effect on sharpness. My dilemma is that I would like a Z9 for the improved AF tracking and frame rate but cannot afford jto replace my F mount glass. Previous comments do seem to suggest that my F mount glass would actually work better with a Z9 and FTZII though which is encouraging but would I still be able to take advantage of the Z9's IBIS?
I have found that my Nikon F mount glass worked fine on Z bodies with the FTZ/FTZII. And may have worked a bit better on a Z body — seemed more precise/consistent in AF and worked a lot better if I was using a TC. Of course, lenses with screw-driven AF will not AF on a Z body. I’ve used the 500 mm PF (with and without an F mount TC); the 70-200 f2.8 E FL; the 300 mm PF (with and without an F mount TC); and the 70-300 FX AF-P lenses on various Z bodies.

Z9/Z8 AF with subject detection has been extremely useful for me in my wildlife photography. I liked my D850 and D500 a lot and used them side-by-side with a Z7/Z7II body until I got a Z9. Sold the two DSLRs at that point.

One thing to consider. You have an F mount Sigma lens. You might want to confirm that it is compatible with the Z system on the FTZ or FTZII (with a Z9, you’ll likely want the FTZII for better ergonomics). I suspect it is, but I have also read that some 3rd party AF lenses need a firmware update to work with Z bodies.

As to VR, with a long lens, you generally want VR in the lens, or in the lens and IBIS in the body, for the best effect. I assume the Sigma 500 has Sigma’s version of VR in the lens. Not sure how that will interact with a Z body. My F mount Nikkors with VR worked fine on my Z bodies and VR was controlled from the lens switch rather than from the camera menus. VR stayed on as long as the camera was on; not ideal, but I could deal with it. I think the Z body IBIS coordinates wthe VR in Z lenses that have it. Not sure about F mount.
 
I have found that my Nikon F mount glass worked fine on Z bodies with the FTZ/FTZII. And may have worked a bit better on a Z body — seemed more precise/consistent in AF and worked a lot better if I was using a TC. Of course, lenses with screw-driven AF will not AF on a Z body. I’ve used the 500 mm PF (with and without an F mount TC); the 70-200 f2.8 E FL; the 300 mm PF (with and without an F mount TC); and the 70-300 FX AF-P lenses on various Z bodies.

Z9/Z8 AF with subject detection has been extremely useful for me in my wildlife photography. I liked my D850 and D500 a lot and used them side-by-side with a Z7/Z7II body until I got a Z9. Sold the two DSLRs at that point.

One thing to consider. You have an F mount Sigma lens. You might want to confirm that it is compatible with the Z system on the FTZ or FTZII (with a Z9, you’ll likely want the FTZII for better ergonomics). I suspect it is, but I have also read that some 3rd party AF lenses need a firmware update to work with Z bodies.

As to VR, with a long lens, you generally want VR in the lens, or in the lens and IBIS in the body, for the best effect. I assume the Sigma 500 has Sigma’s version of VR in the lens. Not sure how that will interact with a Z body. My F mount Nikkors with VR worked fine on my Z bodies and VR was controlled from the lens switch rather than from the camera menus. VR stayed on as long as the camera was on; not ideal, but I could deal with it. I think the Z body IBIS coordinates wthe VR in Z lenses that have it. Not sure about F mount.
Many thanks - I will get an email off to Sigma support asap
 
I owned a D850 for approximately 4-5 years and it’s a great camera, but it doesn’t compare to a Z8 or Z9. Unless you shoot a lot of portrait images, my suggestion would be to buy the Z8 (and an extra battery). The Z9 is a brick and you don’t need the extra weight for wildlife photography. Down the road consider the 600 mm PF which is a fabulous lens and much lighter than a 500 f/4.
 
Morning KCPhoto! I’ve never owned the 500mm f/4 lens, but currently have the 500PF f/5.6, shooting on both the D5 and Z9 with beautiful results. Since I have F-mount lenses ranging from 14mm to 800mm, I purchased the FTZ II adapter for the Z9. Honestly, as much as I loved my D5, the Z9 sees use 98% of the time.

As some have said, there are some great deals on used F-mount lenses out there. However, bear in mind that you’ll never get your money back, as the F-mount lenses are steadily decreasing in value. Another consideration is whether or not Nikon will repair the 500mm f/4 should something like the motor go out. So, if you can live with that, the 500mm f/4 might be the right choice for you.

A friend of mine owned both the Z8 and Z9. When went out on a shoot one day when I was trying to decide on which to purchase, I liked the size and weight of the Z8, until after a few quick shots, it came up with the over-heating warning. No, I wasn’t shooting video, just multiple pics. Then I noticed that the Z8 body didn’t seem as rugged or well built as the Z9. Not saying the Z8 is a bad camera in anyway, but I chose the Z9 and have been happy ever since. The good thing is I can use most everything from my D5, including the older EN-EL18a/b batteries and XQD cards, if necessary and with some disadvantages. I have two EN-EL18d batteries, two CFe B cards in the Z9, and have never run out of power or space on an excursion.

These are just my own thoughts of your dilemma. If you think or have any inkling that you may switch to mirrorless in the near future, don’t invest greatly in the F-mount lenses. Trade-in is out of the question because they won’t give you what the camera or lenses are worth, and I well understand why. If you get a Z9, you’ll rarely use your D850. The Z9 will do everything your D850 does, plus, and you can get the FTZ adapter for around $200 (used, but there’s no glass to worry about).

So, my suggestion is to weigh the pros and cons that only you are fully aware of. If the D850 does everything you need/expect it to do, then maybe new glass is your best choice. However, if you’re interested in mirrorless, you already have a lens capable of 500mm, so you may want to consider the Z8/Z9/FTZ, sell some of your older equipment while there’s still a market, and then save up for mirrorless glass. Good luck with whichever you choose, and just enjoy shooting!
 
Premise: I have the money for EITHER a Z9 OR 500 f/4 (hopefully E FL), but not both.

Ok all, (disclaimer) I am going to ask a question I might generally chuckle at if I saw on here because I know there is likely a string of questions headed my way with so many variables like what, when, who, how, hobbyist/pro, potato, pataaaato, etc.. But I AM going to buy a new piece of gear and need some constructive nudges. I currently have a D850 with decent (24mm up to 500mm) coverage for whatever I shoot, whether the grandbaby, sports, or a hunting raptor. So, on to the meat of the question...

Upgrade to Z9 or get a 500 f/4 and restart the savings process for Z9 later down the road?

Since obviously, either is going to be a dream to have on hand, this is where my thought process becomes blurred.
A snazzy new Z9, "in theory," helps ALL my existing glass and has far superior video capability, which I would like to explore, and the ever-debated YSWYG view-finder. Theoretical glass gains come from:​
  1. improved AF accuracy, full AF sensor coverage, substantially improved focus modes w/ subject detection
  2. higher frame rate for more opportunities in sports and wildlife
  3. no worries about calibration (especially in zooms that can vary from end to end) *even from a tripod, I have never been blown away by my 200-500 unless in live view
Getting the amazing 500 F/4 can be a game changer for its extra stop, sharpness, weather-sealed build, and AF performance compared to 200-500, which seems to be almost always at 500mm for me. The F/4 glass was my original plan for my saved funds. The water got muddied when I thought about what the Z9 brings to the table in a more across-the-board and future-looking approach. I know, I know, the D850 can and does produce amazing quality, and when it locks focus, generally speaking, it matches the IQ of the Z9. Alongside that, more practice and shooting leads to better tracking by the guy behind the viewfinder who now could be producing creamy 500 f/4 goodness. See how it goes off course in my brain? Agghhhh, help me get the water more clear!!!​
Date the camera marry the glass.

Even look at used 500 F4

In your case self realization is more powerful, I would defiantly rent either first.

I have the D850 and the Z9, now while i find the Z9 super impressive with its machine gun frame rate i wind back all the time to 5 or 10 fps, i can for stills just differently do most everything i want on my D850 except the video as the Z9 has the edge.

Glass makes the difference, more so than a camera.

If you budget is limited now its clear you wont likely be making the switch to a full mirror less system in the long term.

I would go the glass route over a body first every time be it the 500 F4 or not.

The Z9 is going to be upgraded very soon is my expectation, it will give you time to save for the next generation.

My Z9 on my 200-500 is awesome but no different to the D850 other than excessive speed or video.

I have a grip on my D850 so 9 fps is more than enough.

Stills are and will be coming more from video in the future and that's becoming more evident.

I have Zero issues with the D850 and 200-500 combo.

I have the Z9 i like but is overkill for a lot of what i do.

Only an opinion
 
I agree with the idea of buying a used 500f/4e fl vr. if you read my initial response above, I was appalled by the quote I received from KEH and B&H for my 500f4e and quite frankly was offended. They offered less than $2000 for my $11,000 lens that is in perfect condition because they were going to sell for at least $6000. they were going to triple their money and someone would have scored the deal of a lifetime! You could realistically get a used 500f4e and a new Z9 for the same spent on a brand new 500f4e FL, as they have not dropped a penny from the $11k price of years ago. I love that lens and will never sell.
 
I agree with the idea of buying a used 500f/4e fl vr. if you read my initial response above, I was appalled by the quote I received from KEH and B&H for my 500f4e and quite frankly was offended. They offered less than $2000 for my $11,000 lens that is in perfect condition because they were going to sell for at least $6000. they were going to triple their money and someone would have scored the deal of a lifetime! You could realistically get a used 500f4e and a new Z9 for the same spent on a brand new 500f4e FL, as they have not dropped a penny from the $11k price of years ago. I love that lens and will never sell.
Exactly why i have just a basic fully depreciated wholly trio in FX and rent any exotics going forward.

As to KEH and the offensive offerings, there realistic and its very reasonable in today's world of doing business there only making around 22.5%.

Here is why

Paying you $2000 selling for $6000 is a skinny deal, for them.

With the $4000 difference 1/3rd goes to Congress/State collectors, 1/3rd goes in wages overheads such as rents insurance finance cost of carrying stock as well as covering warranty and or losses on failed items, then the buyer comes in and wants another 5 or 10% off usually.

They make only roughly $1333 or roughly 22.5% profit for them selves. E bay Amazon etc, most of the people i know make between 12-18% gross if that, then have to pay tax and overheads as well. They rely on volume which sadly isn't there most of the time.

Here in OZ you need to work on 5 to 7 times cost or you cant survive, the pigs with their snouts in the trough above us take so much, tax, 401k, 30% increase in business insurance 18% rise in rents, 5% increase in fiance interest rates, 80% rise in electricity, the list goes on and on, its very hard to do business as lucratively as we used to.

I don't know or care about KEH, i just know what it takes to operate a business.

Selling exotics, is best done selling it privately one self or 2/3rds has to go out to others.

My 300 2.8 VR II listed with Nikon for $9500 AUD NEW, used now is now $3500, my local dealer offered me $1000 only because its a F2.8 in mint condition.
I paid $6K AUD i think 12 years ago not $8500k AUD, i guess the old saying is true the money is made in the buying never the selling LOL.

Now in my mind, if taking a bath on DSLR gear is hard, wait till one try's to sell mirror less gear a little later that usual, it will be like phones, tragic unless you always sell promptly and well before the new version comes out.

At least with DSLR things held their value for a while in times gone by, now there becoming obsolete not just old.


Only an opinion
 
You are absolutely correct. The lens bought at $9500 for a 300 f/2.8 or $11,000 for 500F4 still in mint condition and performs immaculate. Why would we accept under I/3 when it still sells at original price years later. Never sell the classic/exotic lenses. Cameras are drastically changing every two years, such as the Sony A9ii redefining the landscape only to be blown away by the A1. Then the Z9 ascending to the top of BIF with the firmware updates. Epic glass will last decades.
 
It has also been my experience that you don't get good value trading in or selling used equipment to a store that trades in used gear.

The way to get fair value is to sell it on your own through one of the many private listing sites. It is a big hassle and not without risk but it is a reality we have to live with.

DSLR cameras are pretty much old technology at this point. There will be no new F mount cameras offered. The world is moving to mirrorless.

That being said there are some perfectly fine DSLR cameras and lenses still out there. and there are people willing to buy them.

The demand and pricing on used F mount gear is just going to get worse for the seller. If you plan to sell you are best off doing it now.
 
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