600mm PF or 800mm PF???

[MatthewK]

All good advice either way it seems to me. I am waiting today for the 600pf which I have been mulling over for months. I have the 500pf and it is a very good lens but I find myself preferring the 400 f4.5 due to its better feel and although the specs say otherwise I find it to be at least as sharp with the 1.4tc. I walk and only handhold and the 800pf is not a small handhold-able option. I also think overall 600mm is the sweet spot for birds in general and for me I can do small birds and birds in flight which I practice constantly. At around 3 lbs the 600pf is about perfect size wise and although it will not be as sharp as the 800pf when you use the 1.4tc you will be able to get good results in good light. I used the 400 f4.5 with the 2x tc at Bosque last year and although this is not a recommended option I was pleased with some of the shots I got. With practice you can handhold longer focal lengths and this gives you so much more freedom in the field. The accuracy of the z8-9 and the newer z glass makes a tremendous difference compared to my old beloved d850 and d500. There is simply no comparison For action especially. If you are concerned about size and weight as I am, the 600pf is the better compromise.

The good news is that the 600PF + 1.4 is just as sharp as the 800PF. Problem is you’re at f/9 vs. 6.3.

Will you be keeping the 400 4.5 then?

I’m about certain I’ll be selling my 800PF sometime in the next few weeks/months.

 

[Skye.prf]

The good news is that the 600PF + 1.4 is just as sharp as the 800PF. Problem is you’re at f/9 vs. 6.3.

Will you be keeping the 400 4.5 then?

I’m about certain I’ll be selling my 800PF sometime in the next few weeks/months.

This is a good point... but been able to have the same quality of the 800 at F9 ???

 

[macwalter]

I have no doubt the 800pf is superb but for me it’s simply too big. The 100-400mm is a great lens and doesn’t do bad with the 1.4tc. i have it for its versatililty. I also have the 400f4.5 which works better with the 1.4tc and gives me a low light option. The 600pf will replace my 500pf and it does better with the 1.4tc. If I need reach more I will pass.

 

[MatthewK]

This is a good point... but been able to have the same quality of the 800 at F9 ???

They’re pretty much indistinguishable.

 

[macwalter]

I am waiting on the 600pf today as Steve convinced me this lens is really really good and the kind of shooting he does is similar to what I go for. I however don’t want to be tied down to tripods and monopods when out in the field and I find especially with the new mirrorless systems they are simply so good that you can get excellent results with mid sized lenses and practice. I always did well with the d850 but it’s so much easier now with the z8. I can’t handhold the 800pf. I will keep the 400f4.5 as well. It works great.

 

[MatthewK]

I have no doubt the 800pf is superb but for me it’s simply too big. The 100-400mm is a great lens and doesn’t do bad with the 1.4tc. i have it for its versatililty. I also have the 400f4.5 which works better with the 1.4tc and gives me a low light option. The 600pf will replace my 500pf and it does better with the 1.4tc. If I need reach more I will pass.

So now how will the 400 4.5 slot into your work flow alongside the 600PF?

 

[macwalter]

It will be my low light option as on many birding trips you go out early and f6.3 will be too dark. This lens has done me well and even with the 1.4tc it is fast and sharp. The 600mm however will be my go to day time lens in most situations as I have come to realize that 600mm is kind of the sweet spot for areas I tend to go. I also like an 840mm option and I’m hoping this will give me at least some capacity at this distance. If I find it doesn’t do much better I will return it but Steve assured me I will love it. I do kinda hope Nikon will come out with a lightweight 300f2.8 like Sony has in which case I would sell the 400f4.5 but I love that little lens. It feels so good in the hands and it’s fast and works well with the 1.4tc.

 

[Skye.prf]

I think this is a false choice..

The 600mm pf is essentially the same lens as the 5oo mm pf but slightly improved and with 100mm more reach.

So the question really is, if I have the 600mm PF is there any reason to also get the 800mm pf.

The simple answer is, yes there is reason to want to add the 800mm pf

The 800mm pf is simply the best lens at 800mm and above with only two exceptions.

The super expensive F mount 800mm f5 is marginally better optically but much bigger and heavier to use. Plus you have to use the FTZ adapter and can only use the F mount tc. Not worth it better off with the 800mm pf.

If you had the super expensive Z mount 600mm tc when you switch on the built in tc you have a lens that tests out pretty much as good as the 800mm pf. So if you have the 600 mm tc you won't have a need for the 800mm pf.

I have both the 600mm pf and the 800mm pf. The 800mm very simply produces better and sharper images than the 600mm pf with a 1.4x teleconverter. It has better bokeh and better IQ. The difference in quality is clear to me.

Plus with the 600m and a teleconverter you are already at f9 maximum aperture while the 800 is f6.3. If you have to go longer you can use the 2x tc on the 600 pf but you are now at f13. The 800mm will still be f9 and will still be sharper.

I have shot these side by side with a friend who recently upgraded his 500mm pf with the 600mm pf. I think he sees the difference.
whether he eventually joins me with his own 800mm pf is a matter of personal budget and personal choice.

It is a perfectly reasonable decision to stick with the 500mm pf and add the 800mm pf. The 500mm pf is pretty close to the 600mm pf optically/. You cam produce excellent images out to 700mm with the 500mm pf. You get more out of adding the 800mm pf than switching to the 600mm pf in my opinion.

Today if I am shooting for birds in areas requiring long reach I will lead with the 800mm pf. I go to the 600 or something else if the 800mm is too long.

Technically 600mm is the ideal focal length if you have only one lens for birding. But there is a tradeoff between the 600mm tc and the 600mm pf. The 600mm tc has the wider aperture and built in tc but you pay a lot more for it and you have a heavier and more cumbersome lens. The 600mm pf is super light and super short for a 600mm lens. So it is much easier to use and carry. Plus it is about one third the cost.

This something I forgot in my previous comment... The background is incredible with the 800… if you think about birds, it is really worth it… I had also shoted very good landscape with it… as the objects distances are compressed with this focus length, it gives very surprising results.

 

[Skye.prf]

This something I forgot in my previous comment... The background is incredible with the 800… if you think about birds, it is really worth it… I had also shoted very good landscape with it… as the objects distances are compressed with this focus length, it gives very surprising results.

Just adding… my final product with the 500pf and the 800pf is close in term of size of the birds in my picture… in some case, big crop with my 500… almost as is with the 800… even with DX or Topaz, the 800 wins by the very high contrast, color, details… even with high iso, when you remove the noise, it really shines…

 

[RichF]

I really like my 800 PF. But a key question is what will complement this lens? 100-400? There will be cap between 400 and 800, not so large of a gap between 400 and 600.

 

[MatthewK]

I really like my 800 PF. But a key question is what will complement this lens? 100-400? There will be cap between 400 and 800, not so large of a gap between 400 and 600.

That’s a reason why I felt the 400 4.5 and 100-400 weren’t as good of a compliment to my 800, that gap had me constantly changing lenses. The 180-600 though, perfect side-kick.

 

[cchuck]

I like my 800PF and seldom use my 500PF. It is exceptionally sharp and produces beautiful images. However, if I were to go after swallows in flight, I know I would be more successful with the lighter 500PF (~2 lbs lighter than the 800PF). I don't own a 600PF. 600 TC instead until I decide I no longer want to carry it. I'm 76.

I am familiar with the 500 and I have both the 600 and 800.

Switching from the 500 to 600 gets you a Z mount lens and 100 more millimeters in focal length. The actual image quality between the 500 and 600 is pretty close, with the 600 perhaps very minimally sharper. Because of the longer focal length the 600 has greater reach and will show more detail.

The 600 is a very compact and light lens for the focal length.

it can work with teleconverters but you will be at f9 at 840 with the 1.4x or f13 at 1200 with the 2x.

The 800mm pf is a heavier and longer lens but it still is light and compact enough to use for short periods of time handheld. You will prefer to use this on a tripod or monopod.

The 800 is sharper at 800mm than the 600 with tc and also offers wider apertures in areas of its coverage. It also has better bokeh.

To me the 800 is the preferred lens when shooting at 800 or longer. The difference is obvious and I lead with the 800 for shooting birds.

 

[macwalter]

Just got the 600pf and a second z8, both on sale. I love the 100-400 and 400 4.5. These get me to 560 without too much issue, especially the prime. I’m hoping the 600pf will give me adequate IQ at 840. Will have to see. The lens is as big as I want to go. Took a few backyard shots and it is very sharp. Will know more in the next few days.

 

[wotan1]

I had the 600 of and 800 pf along with the 400 f4.5. I found the 800 to be far superior to the 600 with 1.4 tc.

I found the 600 at 600 to be better than the 400 with 1.4 tc. But I also found the 600 to be too narrow a range where it was superior. In the end I decided the 400 was a better companion to the 400.
I was initially put off by the 800 size but I adjusted quickly and it is my favorite long lens.

 

[ChrisM]

I had the 600 of and 800 pf along with the 400 f4.5. I found the 800 to be far superior to the 600 with 1.4 tc.

I found the 600 at 600 to be better than the 400 with 1.4 tc. But I also found the 600 to be too narrow a range where it was superior. In the end I decided the 400 was a better companion to the 400.
I was initially put off by the 800 size but I adjusted quickly and it is my favorite long lens.

Good of you to point out the adjustment factor regarding lens size.
When I am in wide, open terrain, the Sony 600GM now does not feel big and heavy at all. It is different when I am in more crowded areas or close quarters, but when I have a decent amount of space around me, the size is not an issue at all.
When I first got it, it felt shockingly big, but you mentally adapt, and simply get used to it.
If I now would eg. hold my former 500PF, it would feel like a miniature toy lens.

Thet is why I really regret the gap between the big and expensive primes, and the miniaturized super telelenses, sacrificing aperture for getting to a size that I find comically small.
I would very much like to see eg. a 600/5.6 or 500/4.5 lens with modern design, filling the middle ground gap that continues to exist.

The ónly real middle ground lens i.m.o. to date, is the Nikon Z800PF lens
Meaning that it would not have me hitting the obvious limits caused by its miniaturized size and weight all the time regarding light gathering and backgroud separation.
As much as I loved the 500PF in the time that I had it, it was just too limiting. The Sony 600GM has been a revelation in that regard, despite its size and weight.

 

[fcotterill]

These discussions about "Which telephoto?" and field testing etc overlap with questions/ decisions in the following:

Nikon 600 PF Tests & Comparisons - Backcountry Gallery

In this video / review, I pull out all the stops and put the 600PF through the wringer! We’ll scrutinize sharpness, AF speed, background rendering, focus breathing, VR performance, and I’ll even share the ARCA-SWISS foot I’m using with it! But it doesn’t stop there – we gotta see how it stacks...

backcountrygallery.com

Sharpness Showdown! Nikon 600mm TC Vs. Nikon 800 PF, Sony 600 GM, and Nikon 600 F/4 E! - Backcountry Gallery

Ever since I did my first look review of the new Nikon 600 TC lens, I’ve had people asking how it compares in sharpness to other glass – namely the outgoing 600 F/4E, the 800 PF, and the Sony 600 GM. So, I did a quick video with my focus test chart between all of […]

backcountrygallery.com

Nikon 800PF: The Story Behind The Photos - Backcountry Gallery

In my last video, we did a general review of the 800PF, but understanding how I used the lens in the field might be even more helpful. So, in this video, I’ve tossed in a baker’s dozen worth of images I captured with the 800PF and I’ll discuss specific ways I was able to leverage […]

backcountrygallery.com

Brad Hill's exhaustive tests have begun: 180-600, 600PF, 150-500

For those who are not aware, Brad Hill, a Canadian wildlife photographer that specializes on North Pacific Coast marine mammals and bears has begun to publish his review/analysis of some of the most recent telephoto Z optics. In this linked first post, Brad lays out his intention for future...

bcgforums.com

600mm PF with 1.4x TC versus 800mm PF

When I owned the f-mount 500mm f/5.6 lens I used it on rare occasions with the TC-14 teleconverter. The VR was marginal with this setup. The in-camera IS is a good deal better and so I have been wondering whether the 600mm PF lens could be used with the 1.4x teleconverter in place of the 800mm...

bcgforums.com

Ordered the 600 TC, Keep or sell the 800 PF?

For those who are ordering a 600 TC (and already have the 800 PF), will you be keeping the 800 PF or selling it? Like to know you reasoning. Thanks

bcgforums.com

 

[Shanti]

I see the 500PF+1.4c+ FTZII weight about 1600g..so the 800PF is 600g more.The main problem with the 200-500 I had was the balance points @ 500mm. Must see if I can rent it here somehow,as prics have droppe abit I see .

 

[macwalter]

I think if one is using a 600mm or 800mm prime they are committing to tripod use. No doubt a 600mm f 4 is going to outperform any of the more portable options but that is the issue for me. Portability and being able to go places carrying good gear that won’t prevent me from getting there.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I think if one is using a 600mm or 800mm prime they are committing to tripod use. No doubt a 600mm f 4 is going to outperform any of the more portable options but that is the issue for me. Portability and being able to go places carrying good gear that won’t prevent me from getting there.

Not everyone in fact I know a lot of people using the Z800pf who never use it on a tripod. I have not used a tripod in at least 3 years. I am blessed to be able to hand hold and carry my Z9 and Z800 birding in a wide range of terrain and habitat and for long periods of time. It is a vast logistical improvement over my old 600 f/4E.

 

[Ken Miracle]

It will be my low light option as on many birding trips you go out early and f6.3 will be too dark. This lens has done me well and even with the 1.4tc it is fast and sharp. The 600mm however will be my go to day time lens in most situations as I have come to realize that 600mm is kind of the sweet spot for areas I tend to go. I also like an 840mm option and I’m hoping this will give me at least some capacity at this distance. If I find it doesn’t do much better I will return it but Steve assured me I will love it. I do kinda hope Nikon will come out with a lightweight 300f2.8 like Sony has in which case I would sell the 400f4.5 but I love that little lens. It feels so good in the hands and it’s fast and works well with the 1.4tc.

My wife unfortunately is very limited in the weight she can carry. For he Z7II she got the new Z28-400 and after 2 weeks has told me to sell her Z400 f/4.5 which is a pound heavier and far less versatile. It reminds me of the Nikkor 28-300 that was a workhorse on my D4S.

 

[macwalter]

Not everyone in fact I know a lot of people using the Z800pf who never use it on a tripod. I have not used a tripod in at least 3 years. I am blessed to be able to hand hold and carry my Z9 and Z800 birding in a wide range of terrain and habitat and for long periods of time. It is a vast logistical improvement over my old 600 f/4E.

I admire your ability. I wish I could say the same. I have handled that lens and know I could not handhold it for long periods. Also I tend to prefer 600mm as a base for overall bird photography. That being said I did put a 1.4tc on the 600pf today to photograph a great horned owl. Will have to see how it turned out. A bit dark so no doubt the 800pf would have done better.

 

[SHC]

Already owning the 400 f/4.5 and TC-1.4, I thought long and hard about what to pair with it. A few months ago, I rented the 800 pf for a week and loved how it paired with the 400. In low light, I could go with the 400, though I was shocked that I obtained useable photos with the 800 handheld at 1/30th of a second. After the week was over, I found that having 800mm at f6.3 (vs. f9 with the 600 pf + TC) provided meaningful advantages, and flipping my Z8 into DX mode allowed me to capture images that were not possible with the 400+TC combo, even in DX mode. I was also surprised at how well balanced the Z8/800mm combo is, and I was able to comfortably take 4-5 mile hikes with the 800mm over my shoulder (attached to my monopod), in my Mr. Jan Gear carrier, or handheld by the nicely padded foot. Having the included bag with a means to lash on a monopod was also handy when I only wanted to carry one lens.

 

[macwalter]

I love the 400 f4.5 and it does work well with the 1.4tc. I went out today to shoot BIF with the 600pf and I have to say it is another level higher in terms of IQ. The lens feels great in the hands and is very quick. Nice also that it is at its best wide open. On the way back I put on the 1.4tc to see how it did. While not as stellar as the bare lens it was still quite sharp and I could get good results. I have never mastered monopods and don’t care for them so I will likely stay with the 600pf and the 400pf with both TCs. Both lenses handle the same and are perfect for me with the z8 of which I now have two. If I get too old to hike I’ll sell all the small glass and get a tripod and a 600tc and park myself somewhere. I do have a friend who uses a monopod with the big f4 glass and he is really good with it. He is 20 years younger than me and very fit. I’m satisfied with my limits.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I love the 400 f4.5 and it does work well with the 1.4tc. I went out today to shoot BIF with the 600pf and I have to say it is another level higher in terms of IQ. The lens feels great in the hands and is very quick. Nice also that it is at its best wide open. On the way back I put on the 1.4tc to see how it did. While not as stellar as the bare lens it was still quite sharp and I could get good results. I have never mastered monopods and don’t care for them so I will likely stay with the 600pf and the 400pf with both TCs. Both lenses handle the same and are perfect for me with the z8 of which I now have two. If I get too old to hike I’ll sell all the small glass and get a tripod and a 600tc and park myself somewhere. I do have a friend who uses a monopod with the big f4 glass and he is really good with it. He is 20 years younger than me and very fit. I’m satisfied with my limits.

The 400pf mentioned is probably the Z400 f/4.5 which is not a pf lens, just mentioning for others who may see this it looks like a typo ... I have made so many I can not count even with my boots off I need to get busy tomorrow and sell my Wife's Z400 f /4.5 she is telling me her Z7II is now married to her new Z28-400.

 

[Calson]

One other aspect that I consider is cost and amount of use I expect to get with any given lens. Cost vary from $1,697 for the 180-600mm up to $15,497 for the 600mm f/4 TC lens. The 600mm PF at $4,287 is a good value but I would expect better IQ than with a 400mm f/4.5 that sells for $3,000.

With bird life in the Western US most of my subjects are too small to photograph with less than 800mm focal length. For me the choice between a $16,000 7.2 lb lens and a $6,000 5.2 lb lens to have 800mm was not a difficult decision.