600mm PF or 800mm PF???

[Ken Miracle]

I admire your ability. I wish I could say the same. I have handled that lens and know I could not handhold it for long periods. Also I tend to prefer 600mm as a base for overall bird photography. That being said I did put a 1.4tc on the 600pf today to photograph a great horned owl. Will have to see how it turned out. A bit dark so no doubt the 800pf would have done better.

We are all different ... my wife and I are both 75 I am blessed with the ability to do that and she has back, hand, knee and hip issues that keep her very weight restricted. They are the result of being hit by a car when she was 6 and back then not much was known about how to prevent future problems as things healed.

 

[Calson]

My wife was not keen to use DSLR cameras and lenses with their weight. She has been using MFT mirrorless cameras and lenses that weigh less than half as much. My last trip to Costa Rica my 32L backpack weighed 37 lbs while her MFT kit in a 18L backpack weighed half as much.

 

[DavidT]

Hi At present I am using Z9,500PF +1.4TC as my longest lens . Am in doubt whether to go for the 600PF or 800PF? price is a bit of a factor,but not critical. As I do mostly BIF ,my 500+tc gives me 700mm @F8, so 800 @ 6.3 would be a bonus. I use the 500PF @ 5.6 when light is not good, think 600 @6.3 would be pushing it a bit?? I use DXO Raw3/Topaz denoise & ISO 6400 is max for most shots. I do crop as cannot always get close enough for what I want to show. Weight is also an issue as not young anymore,and the 180-600 is too heavy for handholding,600 0r 800 are fine ,as far as weight goes. Think the 800 is as heavy as my old 200-500,but balances better. Any feedback is welcome. Also I normally have my 300PF on my D850,so have 2 cameras with mostly.

If you can handle shooting BIF at 800mm and the size of that lens doesn’t bother you than that’s the one I’d buy.

 

[wotan1]

600 One other aspect that I consider is cost and amount of use I expect to get with any given lens. Cost vary from $1,697 for the 180-600mm up to $15,497 for the 600mm f/4 TC lens. The 600mm PF at $4,287 is a good value but I would expect better IQ than with a 400mm f/4.5 that sells for $3,000.

With bird life in the Western US most of my subjects are too small to photograph with less than 800mm focal length. For me the choice between a $16,000 7.2 lb lens and a $6,000 5.2 lb lens to have 800mm was not a difficult decision.

I agree with this response. I would only add that the price of quality is generally higher the longer the focal length. The 400 as I understand is easier and cheaper to design and build than 600. Also wider aperture lenses have more and bigger glass which is both more expensive and heavier. The 600mm pf is sharper at 600mm than the 400 with the 1.4x tc but the 600mm of course can't do anything under 600. Use of fresnel elements in the PF lenses is in a sense "cheating" lens design science because it allows the building of quality lenses using less glass, resulting in both lighter and cheaper lenses.

 

[macwalter]

Yes that was a goof on my part the 400 f4.5 is not a pf lens though just as light.

 

[Vincent_VdB]

For those owning the 800mm PF a practical question. I have my lens on the way and in an unbox video did I see that the lens is supplied with a soft bag.
Is that big enough to hold the lens with a Z8 attached to it so I can take it this way for travel?
Thx for the feedback.

 

[ajrmd]

For those owning the 800mm PF a practical question. I have my lens on the way and in an unbox video did I see that the lens is supplied with a soft bag.
Is that big enough to hold the lens with a Z8 attached to it so I can take it this way for travel?
Thx for the feedback.

It’s a really solid tube case with a solid bottom and sling design. You can easily store the lens attached to a z8 and transport/carry the lens with it. See: https://www.nikonusa.com/p/cl-l3-lens-case/4266/overview

 

[Vincent_VdB]

It’s a really solid tube case with a solid bottom and sling design. You can easily store the lens attached to a z8 and transport/carry the lens with it. See: https://www.nikonusa.com/p/cl-l3-lens-case/4266/overview

Thank you for the confirmation, much appreciated.

 

[DsD]

For those owning the 800mm PF a practical question. I have my lens on the way and in an unbox video did I see that the lens is supplied with a soft bag.
Is that big enough to hold the lens with a Z8 attached to it so I can take it this way for travel?
Thx for the feedback.

Yes indeed BUT only with the hood reversed on the lens in the transport mode. It is a handy and light i.e. useful case.

 

[ajrmd]

Yes indeed BUT only with the hood reversed on the lens in the transport mode. It is a handy and light i.e. useful case.

You're correct that it is really designed with the hood reversed rather than utilization for rapid access. I don't know too many bags which will carry a z8+800+ hood in shooting position (~23") other than the Lowepro Lens Trekker 600, the Ruggard and other knock offs?

 

[wotan1]

The case that comes with the 800mm pf is quite nice and I use it all the time for storing and transporting the lens. It is well-secured and protected in the bag. Will also hold the lens with Z9 attached. Reversing the hood is quick and easy. The bag has a rigid base and includes a substantial soft pouch that fits over the reversed lens hood and provides additional cushioning.

The front glass element on the lens is very large and potentially vulnerable if the lens is mishandled. Having the lens hood in place provides substantial protection. Zemlin also makes an after market lens cap that is strongly recommended. It is substantial, holds firmly in place and provides additional good protection to the lens.

The lens hood that comes with the lens is quite large. It is rigid and requires a lot of room in a transport bag. For air travel some choose to leave the hood at home and use an aftermarket soft folding lens hood. Another option is to pack the lens hood separately in checked luggage.

The lens Is easier to fit into a photo backpack if you leave the hood detached. For this use the Zemlin lens cap is in my opinion essential added protection.

 

[Ken Miracle]

As @wotan1 noted the case that comes with the Z800 is quite nice. I have carried Z800 with Z9 attached many times with my 2 piece Zemlin hood reversed and the Zemlin snap on lens cap in place. I like the 2 piece hood since if the wind starts howling I can eliminate almost all of the "sail" effect by taking the front part off (I take my belt off and thread it through the front half and have it behind me).

I recently got a custom made padded, versatile and sturdy Vertex Photo bag from measurements I took for John Stanford the owner and craftsman. It is specifically designed for Z800 and Z9 to use with the hood deployed in shooting position. It can be strapped into my suv passenger seat in an upright position with fast accessibility from top, front or side. Or if I have a passenger it can be strapped down flat on the back seat. It has plenty of external storage pockets for my BR strap, extra batteries etc..

I communicated via e mail and phone with John and he custom made an amazing bag just for my set up and he followed up a couple of times to make sure all was okay after I got it.

Bean bags and big lens bags for wildlife nature safari bird photography — Vertex Photographic

Products to help photographers with camera support bean bags for camera lens. Used for wildlife, nature, safari and bird photography where a window mount camera support is required. Unique "Molar" bean bags and custom designed lens bag enable you to get the most from your&nbs

www.vertexphoto.com

 

[wotan1]

I was going to mention the two-piece lens hood suggested by Ken Miracle. I ordered one a few weeks ago and it was shipped and should arrive in one or two days.

The vertex bag looks interesting As do the bean bag and mount for a gimbal.

 

[ricardo00]

As @wotan1 noted the case that comes with the Z800 is quite nice. I have carried Z800 with Z9 attached many times with my 2 piece Zemlin hood reversed and the Zemlin snap on lens cap in place. I like the 2 piece hood since if the wind starts howling I can eliminate almost all of the "sail" effect by taking the front part off (I take my belt off and thread it through the front half and have it behind me).

I recently got a custom made padded, versatile and sturdy Vertex Photo bag from measurements I took for John Stanford the owner and craftsman. It is specifically designed for Z800 and Z9 to use with the hood deployed in shooting position. It can be strapped into my suv passenger seat in an upright position with fast accessibility from top, front or side. Or if I have a passenger it can be strapped down flat on the back seat. It has plenty of external storage pockets for my BR strap, extra batteries etc..

I communicated via e mail and phone with John and he custom made and amazing bag just for me and he followed up a couple of times to make sure all was okay after I got it.

Bean bags and big lens bags for wildlife nature safari bird photography — Vertex Photographic

Products to help photographers with camera support bean bags for camera lens. Used for wildlife, nature, safari and bird photography where a window mount camera support is required. Unique "Molar" bean bags and custom designed lens bag enable you to get the most from your&nbs

www.vertexphoto.com

I have had a Vertex molar bag for 13 years. Took it on a number of trips and left it in my car much of this time. It still works as well as when I first got it. Currently use it with the Z9 and 800mm pf lens.

 

[AZMyke]

I think this is a false choice..

The 600mm pf is essentially the same lens as the 5oo mm pf but slightly improved and with 100mm more reach.

So the question really is, if I have the 600mm PF is there any reason to also get the 800mm pf.

The simple answer is, yes there is reason to want to add the 800mm pf

The 800mm pf is simply the best lens at 800mm and above with only two exceptions.

The super expensive F mount 800mm f5 is marginally better optically but much bigger and heavier to use. Plus you have to use the FTZ adapter and can only use the F mount tc. Not worth it better off with the 800mm pf.

If you had the super expensive Z mount 600mm tc when you switch on the built in tc you have a lens that tests out pretty much as good as the 800mm pf. So if you have the 600 mm tc you won't have a need for the 800mm pf.

I have both the 600mm pf and the 800mm pf. The 800mm very simply produces better and sharper images than the 600mm pf with a 1.4x teleconverter. It has better bokeh and better IQ. The difference in quality is clear to me.

Plus with the 600m and a teleconverter you are already at f9 maximum aperture while the 800 is f6.3. If you have to go longer you can use the 2x tc on the 600 pf but you are now at f13. The 800mm will still be f9 and will still be sharper.

I have shot these side by side with a friend who recently upgraded his 500mm pf with the 600mm pf. I think he sees the difference.
whether he eventually joins me with his own 800mm pf is a matter of personal budget and personal choice.

It is a perfectly reasonable decision to stick with the 500mm pf and add the 800mm pf. The 500mm pf is pretty close to the 600mm pf optically/. You cam produce excellent images out to 700mm with the 500mm pf. You get more out of adding the 800mm pf than switching to the 600mm pf in my opinion.

Today if I am shooting for birds in areas requiring long reach I will lead with the 800mm pf. I go to the 600 or something else if the 800mm is too long.

Technically 600mm is the ideal focal length if you have only one lens for birding. But there is a tradeoff between the 600mm tc and the 600mm pf. The 600mm tc has the wider aperture and built in tc but you pay a lot more for it and you have a heavier and more cumbersome lens. The 600mm pf is super light and super short for a 600mm lens. So it is much easier to use and carry. Plus it is about one third the cost.

I have the Z600pf and know that your post is right on point!

 

[O]

Its important to consider costs, even adding in the cost of Tcs.

It is not so silly to rent before buying.

Nikon has provided a stunning selection of glass/tools.

400 PF
600 PF
600 F4 TC
800

I feel Nikon will in the longer term catch up and compliment the glass with new cameras as technology continues to evolve.
Its always important to consider the package, camera and lens.

I am a 300 F2.8 or 600 F4 prime lens lover, because of the F2.8 and F4.

That said i can say i love the outcomes even on the budget 200-500 and the excellent PF lenses mirror less or DSLR, even the 150-500 Sigma LOL.

I mean we use some costly tools to show or share outcomes on the internet a 1mb file !

For the cost of a 600 F4 TC one could consider two optional lenses with maybe even a spare body ?

If i was looking at a expensive prime again to buy i would go for the 400 F2.8 TC, the brilliant Tcs now at 2x is 800mm at F5.6, with the 1.4 tc just n F3.92, then i still have F2.8 as a choice, its a low light killer and more versatile, adding in my feet moving forward or back, and the benefit of cropping, its my pick over the 600 TC

Its one of the reasons my 300 2.8 VR II is still laying around.

There all great tools and all have a purpose to meet needs.

Only an opinion

 

[MJR]

The original Poster said he was using a Z9 with a 500Pf + FTZ with the 1.4 Tc producing a 700mm to shoot BIF. My question to him is do you have any trouble picking up and tracking fast moving BIF? The horizontal angle of view narrows with the longer the lens. A 500mm lens has a 4.1 Horizontal angle of view. The 600 has a 3.4 Horizontal angle of view and the 800 has a 2.6 horizontal angle of view. I have both the 500 and 600 PF and I find I can pick up and track BIF much faster with the 500 than the 600. If I switch to DX mode with the 600 I miss most of the time because its so hard with the narrow FOV to find the subject before its already passed me. For this reason I have not purchased an 800. As Eric mentioned and I think that its extremely important "It depends on what you are shooting". Birds on a stick then yes an 800, but fast flying BIF not so much.

 

[Ken Miracle]

The original Poster said he was using a Z9 with a 500Pf + FTZ with the 1.4 Tc producing a 700mm to shoot BIF. My question to him is do you have any trouble picking up and tracking fast moving BIF? The horizontal angle of view narrows with the longer the lens. A 500mm lens has a 4.1 Horizontal angle of view. The 600 has a 3.4 Horizontal angle of view and the 800 has a 2.6 horizontal angle of view. I have both the 500 and 600 PF and I find I can pick up and track BIF much faster with the 500 than the 600. If I switch to DX mode with the 600 I miss most of the time because its so hard with the narrow FOV to find the subject before its already passed me. For this reason I have not purchased an 800. As Eric mentioned and I think that its extremely important "It depends on what you are shooting". Birds on a stick then yes an 800, but fast flying BIF not so much.

BIF with Z800mm depends on the birds and your experience in acquiring and tracking flying targets. Swallows and other small fast song birds are a lot different than waterfowl etc..

I photographed a lot of BIF with my Z800mm while out hiking around birding in a wide range of habitat and photographing whatever shows up. For example I have been photographing small shore birds at a local lake and had a Peregrine Falcon show up, swallows fly by, a flock of shore birds come by, Northern Harriers sail past and was able to quickly acquire them with Z800pf on Z9.

I have a lot of experience with BIF with a camera but for years before I got into photography I shot sporting clays and hunted a lot of game birds with a shotgun. I have fired hundreds of thousands of shotgun shells over those years. So I was already used to focusing on a flying target and bringing my shotgun up to track and fire at it all while keeping my eyes focused on the target.

I recently sold my Z800 pf and now have a Z600 f/4 TC used primarily on a Z9 and I use my Z600 f/6.3 primarily on my Z6III.

If I was deliberately setting out to photograph swallows in flight, for example, and I knew that they were going to be fairly close I would use a different lens with a shorter minimum focal length and that lens would depend on how far away I expected them to be. I would use Tamron z mount 150-500, or if very close and low light Tamron z mount 35-150 f/2-2.8 or Z24-120.

 

[wotan1]

I guess I want to mention that everyone has favorite lenses. Most of the time what makes a lens a favorite is that it allows you to shoot better and more interesting images. I have three favorites. In listing them 1-2-3 I am not ranking them. Each is a favorite for what it will do. I could not use my 14-24mm to photograph birds and I would not use the 800mm as a first choice landscape lens.

I shoot in the Pacific Northwest and my main interest is birds. It is a fact in my area that most birds are farther away and I am usually straining to get close enough so they can fill the frame, or at least have enough of the frame to make an interesting environmental shot. Solely because of the environment I work in, when I go birding I am usually looking for maximum practical reach which usually is 800mm.

For me I have three lenses I consider to be my best lenses. I love the Z 14-24mm f2.8 S lens for an incredibly sharp and incredibly detailed interesting ultra wide perspective. It can create some really interesting landscapes.

My second favorite lens is the Z 135mm f1.8 Plena. I love it because it is magically sharp, has an incredibly narrow depth of field and has the most beautiful background rendering of any lens I have ever used. This lens is ideal for a lot of things including portraits, pets, animals and birds close by and most importantly to me, flowers and plants.

My third favorite lens is the Z 800mm PF. I love it for birds for many reasons. It is incredibly sharp and does an excellent job tracking birds once you get them in the frame. Its incredible sharpness means I can use significant cropping to bring out the best composition. In fact I will often go on a shoot with this lens, fill my card and bring it back to Lightroom for composition. I find a lot of keepers I did not know I had by processing and cropping for best composition. I come up with a lot of surprise keepers that way, things I could not have realized when looking though the viewfinder.

I learned to manage handling my 800mm pf. I carry it on a Holdfast dual strap. I dangle the 800 with Z9 and only lift it when I am composing for a shot. Used that way I can shoot all day that way handheld. the size and weight of the lens does not bother me because handled the way I describe it is easy to use. On the other hand, if I am going to be close to. vehicle and particularly when birds are moving parallel to my position I prefer to get out the Gitzo systematic 3 series with leveling base and Wimberley 200 gimbal and set that up. Used that way the lens is effortless and smooth panning and if I have to wait for some action I can leave it where it is and it stays pointed where I pointed it. In fact I bring.a folding stool and I can sit and watch and wait for the action. Or I can sit down on a log somewhere or lean against a tree and brace the lens on my knees and get incredibly good shots. I spent hours on one occasion on a beach just sitting there and watching the shore birds parade around me.

I write a lot about this 800mm because it truly is one of my three best lenses and I want to share the experience.

 

[macwalter]

I go out and practice with the 600pf and 1.4tc for 840mm. I can tell you it is harder than the bare 600mm. The flip side is you can shoot subjects further out and still get a decent amount of detail. In good light the 600 with a 1.4tc works pretty well and can acquire focus quickly. I do find it to be less reliable in terms of holding focus on BIF. It is nice having more reach in open areas and for birds such as kingfisher and kestrel that tend to be skittish. I wouldn’t want a bare 800mm and not having something shorter.

 

[wotan1]

I go out and practice with the 600pf and 1.4tc for 840mm. I can tell you it is harder than the bare 600mm. The flip side is you can shoot subjects further out and still get a decent amount of detail. In good light the 600 with a 1.4tc works pretty well and can acquire focus quickly. I do find it to be less reliable in terms of holding focus on BIF. It is nice having more reach in open areas and for birds such as kingfisher and kestrel that tend to be skittish. I wouldn’t want a bare 800mm and not having something shorter.

I comptely agree that you need something shorter to work with if you have the 800.

I personally find the 400mm f4.5 to be an ideal complement to the 800. I am biased in favor of primes over zooms because the good primes can be cropped substantially to gain reach. The 400 either with crop or dx can cover between 400 and 800. When using this combination I almost never use a tc.

 

[macwalter]

I have both the 400f4.5 and the 600pf along with the 100-400mm zoom for insects etc. for birds my go to is the 600pf unless I want fast action in low light then the 400 being twice as fast and more area for wing motion etc. I used to use the 400 with the 1.4tc but the 600pf is noticeably better, sharper with richer contrast. I handhold so the 800pf is a bit too much for me to handle, otherwise I would be tempted. If I were to go exotic and use a tripod I most likely would go for the 600f4 tc over the 400f2.8 tc as being able to switch between 600 and 840 would likely happen more often I’m thinking. 600mm is simply not long enough at times. But going exotic is not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[O]

The case that comes with the 800mm pf is quite nice and I use it all the time for storing and transporting the lens. It is well-secured and protected in the bag. Will also hold the lens with Z9 attached. Reversing the hood is quick and easy. The bag has a rigid base and includes a substantial soft pouch that fits over the reversed lens hood and provides additional cushioning.

The front glass element on the lens is very large and potentially vulnerable if the lens is mishandled. Having the lens hood in place provides substantial protection. Zemlin also makes an after market lens cap that is strongly recommended. It is substantial, holds firmly in place and provides additional good protection to the lens.

The lens hood that comes with the lens is quite large. It is rigid and requires a lot of room in a transport bag. For air travel some choose to leave the hood at home and use an aftermarket soft folding lens hood. Another option is to pack the lens hood separately in checked luggage.

The lens Is easier to fit into a photo backpack if you leave the hood detached. For this use the Zemlin lens cap is in my opinion essential added protection.

400 800 seems a good combo of tools.

 

[Calson]

For me I knew that with the 600mm f/4 lenses I have owned that the majority of the time I used them with a 1.4x teleconverter for a focal length of 840mm. Not much of a loss with 800mm and the PF lens is vastly lighter and with the IS of the Z9 it is practical to use it without a tripod.

The lens I wish Nikon would make is a 300-800mm zoom lens as I have a 100-400 plus 1.4x TC for 560mm and then a gap to 800mm.

 

[gdecamp]

Love my 800pf!!!