Master Nikon AF Handoffs on Z8, Z9, and Z6iii

[Steve]

In this video, we’re diving deep into AF Handoffs with the Nikon Z8, Z9, and Z6iii—and this concept will likely apply to future Nikon mirrorless models too. There's a ton of confusion out there between normal AF overrides and AF overrides that include a handoff and this video will clear the waters. (Warning: Many people think they know this technique and have it 100% WRONG - watch to make sure you have it RIGHT!)

If you shoot the Z8, Z9, or Z6iii, this video is absolutely critical to your AF success! (And it might explain some AF failures too!)

 

[DRwyoming]

Awesome video clarifying a sometimes confusing subject.

FWIW, I think of what we call 'AF Handoff' more as 'Subject Detection Handoff' in the sense that we're transferring the active and locked state of subject detection to the new AF Area mode.

Also, just for completeness, I'd add custom C1 and C2 to the modes that could be used to support handoff in addition to: Wide-small, Wide-large, Auto and 3D that you list near the end of the video.

 

[Steve]

Awesome video clarifying a sometimes confusing subject.

FWIW, I think of what we call 'AF Handoff' more as 'Subject Detection Handoff' in the sense that we're transferring the active and locked state of subject detection to the new AF Area mode.

Also, just for completeness, I'd add custom C1 and C2 to the modes that could be used to support handoff in addition to: Wide-small, Wide-large, Auto and 3D that you list near the end of the video.

I was tempted to call it Subject Detection handoff, but you don't need Subject Detection to do it, so I left that out. Most of the time, yes, we do it with Subject Detection, but you can also do it without if you're using Auto or 3D.

Maybe I should have mentioned C1 and C2, I just mentally group them into Wide AF

 

[ajrmd]

Great video which I think will help a lot of users who are trying to use handoff as a means to achieve better results. My biggest confounding variable when shooting action is not handoff per se, but AF persistence or "stickiness". Handing off to 3D mode has significant drawbacks and the AF mode, whether one uses AA or Wide (S/L/Custom) seems to make little difference in the AF system maintaining focus. Adjusting a3 - blocked shot response doesn't appear to sufficiently address the predictive algorithm or recognition issues either. Overall, the AF system works extremely well for most situations, though my hope is the Nikon engineers can continue to work on tackling the more challenging situations.

 

[JP Onstwedder]

In this video, we’re diving deep into AF Handoffs with the Nikon Z8, Z9, and Z6iii—and this concept will likely apply to future Nikon mirrorless models too. There's a ton of confusion out there between normal AF overrides and AF overrides that include a handoff and this video will clear the waters. (Warning: Many people think they know this technique and have it 100% WRONG - watch to make sure you have it RIGHT!)

If you shoot the Z8, Z9, or Z6iii, this video is absolutely critical to your AF success! (And it might explain some AF failures too!)

Thank you! Best explanation I’ve seen!

 

[Steve]

Great video which I think will help a lot of users who are trying to use handoff as a means to achieve better results. My biggest confounding variable when shooting action is not handoff per se, but AF persistence or "stickiness". Handing off to 3D mode has significant drawbacks and the AF mode, whether one uses AA or Wide (S/L/Custom) seems to make little difference in the AF system maintaining focus. Adjusting a3 - blocked shot response doesn't appear to sufficiently address the predictive algorithm or recognition issues either. Overall, the AF system works extremely well for most situations, though my hope is the Nikon engineers can continue to work on tackling the more challenging situations.

Yeah, I find blocked shot response does nothing with Subject Detection. The problem is, when Subject Detection loses the lock, the camera reverts back to the current AF area - it's doesn't pause for a moment like a normal AF area can.

 

[Nasos Kosmas]

Thank you Steve very helpful video!

 

[ButlerKid]

Another much needed video! Thanks, Steve.

And just in time. I haven't shot wildlife since March!

 

[Topper1946]

In this video, we’re diving deep into AF Handoffs with the Nikon Z8, Z9, and Z6iii—and this concept will likely apply to future Nikon mirrorless models too. There's a ton of confusion out there between normal AF overrides and AF overrides that include a handoff and this video will clear the waters. (Warning: Many people think they know this technique and have it 100% WRONG - watch to make sure you have it RIGHT!)

If you shoot the Z8, Z9, or Z6iii, this video is absolutely critical to your AF success! (And it might explain some AF failures too!)

Awesome! Thanks - I was confused about this.

 

[SCoombs]

The issue I have found with handoffs is that after handing off to auto or 3D the camera, since it is now fully in control, usually very quickly jumps back to focusing in whatever it was that I didn't want it to that prompted the hand off in the first place.

For instance, in the video the example is given of some brush distracting the AF. You might then acquire focus on the subject using a different mode and them hand off to auto or 3D. Anytime I do that, the camera pretty quickly focuses on the brush again.

In general that's the issue I keep having with this system: it has things the AF really prefers, as is expected and normal, but it seems to always want to prioritize those things even if it's been given a different target to focus on using one of the ways users can be more specific.

If I have two birds in frame and I want to focus on the left one but the auto area wants the right one, if I get focus with a 1x1 area box then hand off to auto area the auto area just does its thing and focuses on that other bird. If I hand off to 3D it might hang on a little longer, but even 3D really likes to go for whatever the AF system prefers.

 

[Steve]

The issue I have found with handoffs is that after handing off to auto or 3D the camera, since it is now fully in control, usually very quickly jumps back to focusing in whatever it was that I didn't want it to that prompted the hand off in the first place.

For instance, in the video the example is given of some brush distracting the AF. You might then acquire focus on the subject using a different mode and them hand off to auto or 3D. Anytime I do that, the camera pretty quickly focuses on the brush again.

In general that's the issue I keep having with this system: it has things the AF really prefers, as is expected and normal, but it seems to always want to prioritize those things even if it's been given a different target to focus on using one of the ways users can be more specific.

If I have two birds in frame and I want to focus on the left one but the auto area wants the right one, if I get focus with a 1x1 area box then hand off to auto area the auto area just does its thing and focuses on that other bird. If I hand off to 3D it might hang on a little longer, but even 3D really likes to go for whatever the AF system prefers.

Sometimes you don't handoff and just stick with Wide

I've run into that myself at times, although for the most part, it seems like when I "specify" a subject and handoff, it tends to stick with it (unless it's a tenuous lock to begin with, then it might jump around).

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

Thanks for the clarity; now people will be depressed over how simple it actually is.

 

[ajrmd]

Sometimes you don't handoff and just stick with Wide

I've run into that myself at times, although for the most part, it seems like when I "specify" a subject and handoff, it tends to stick with it (unless it's a tenuous lock to begin with, then it might jump around).

I'm with Shane on this. As an experiment the other day, I was visiting my Trumpeter Swan friends who agreed to serve as models for an AF exploration. I was shooting at a variety of FL's and AF settings along with SD. The Z8's SD was impressive with the two lenses I tested (70-180 and 180-600) in that the little white box instantly recognized the swan's eye and tracked it as it moved along. I say impressive because a swan's eye is the same color and essentially continuous with the bird's gape. However, this is where it became interesting. When I activated the AF by pressing the BBF, the green square typically started on the eye but would oscillate back and forth between the eye and a larger green box on the body. Even in a Wide S mode, this occurred, and this was odd since at the FL/perspective the small Wide S square was far away from the body and clearly over the eye. Admittedly, the AF oscillated less in Wide S than AA, but it still occurred. If I released the BBF, the white SD/tracking box instantly reappeared and was always on the eye. So, it strikes me that there is something going on between the logic associated with SD/tracking and other AF algorithms. Even more interesting, the AF seemed to be affected by subject distance. If I used the 70-180 at say 85mm (with the perspective produced in the image below) and moved back to keep the bird at the same size in the frame and shot a 180mm, the rate/frequency of AF oscillation lessened.

 

[Ad Astra]

Thanks Steve, a very useful and easy to understand explanation of a difficult subject.

 

[Steve]

I'm with Shane on this. As an experiment the other day, I was visiting my Trumpeter Swan friends who agreed to serve as models for an AF exploration. I was shooting at a variety of FL's and AF settings along with SD. The Z8's SD was impressive with the two lenses I tested (70-180 and 180-600) in that the little white box instantly recognized the swan's eye and tracked it as it moved along. I say impressive because a swan's eye is the same color and essentially continuous with the bird's gape. However, this is where it became interesting. When I activated the AF by pressing the BBF, the green square typically started on the eye but would oscillate back and forth between the eye and a larger green box on the body. Even in a Wide S mode, this occurred, and this was odd since at the FL/perspective the small Wide S square was far away from the body and clearly over the eye. Admittedly, the AF oscillated less in Wide S than AA, but it still occurred. If I released the BBF, the white SD/tracking box instantly reappeared and was always on the eye. So, it strikes me that there is something going on between the logic associated with SD/tracking and other AF algorithms. Even more interesting, the AF seemed to be affected by subject distance. If I used the 70-180 at say 85mm (with the perspective produced in the image below) and moved back to keep the bird at the same size in the frame and shot a 180mm, the rate/frequency of AF oscillation lessened.

Some subjects work better with Subject Detection than others, and I think that's what was happening here. (Subject Detection still struggles with long-necked birds in my experience).

One thing I say over and over in my books, posts, videos, etc., is if Subject Detection isn't sticking to the face and eye as well as you'd like, turn it off. I'm confident in a few years it'll be much better, but we're still very much on the bleeding edge of this technology. It'll get there

 

[Ralph]

In this video, we’re diving deep into AF Handoffs with the Nikon Z8, Z9, and Z6iii—and this concept will likely apply to future Nikon mirrorless models too. There's a ton of confusion out there between normal AF overrides and AF overrides that include a handoff and this video will clear the waters. (Warning: Many people think they know this technique and have it 100% WRONG - watch to make sure you have it RIGHT!)

If you shoot the Z8, Z9, or Z6iii, this video is absolutely critical to your AF success! (And it might explain some AF failures too!)

Steve, If you are using BBF for the initial subject detection and then handoff using the fn1 button, do you need to continue pressing the BBF button, i.e you are pressing two buttons at once.

 

[ajrmd]

Some subjects work better with Subject Detection than others, and I think that's what was happening here. (Subject Detection still struggles with long-necked birds in my experience).

One thing I say over and over in my books, posts, videos, etc., is if Subject Detection isn't sticking to the face and eye as well as you'd like, turn it off. I'm confident in a few years it'll be much better, but we're still very much on the bleeding edge of this technology. It'll get there

While I agree about the challenges of long necked birds, as I indicated, the issue doesn’t appear to be with SD/tracking as indicated by the white box. It is only when AF is initiated with the BBF and green box that the issues start. One can watch the little white box follow the bird’s eye around in the frame and then initiating BBF usually turns the white box green on the eye. Then the green box starts to oscillate between the eye and body. it were only limited to long necked birds, I would concede, but the same thing happens when I shoot goldfinches or other subjects. It’s so bad with goldfinches that spot or C1. (1x1) are the only effective way I’ve been able to capture them. Handing off to 3D or another AF mode if the 1x1 C1 is used is not effective as the af ends up on the body.

 

[IainD]

Am I correct that the Z9 does not have a shooting bank that can be set to keep these settings all together? For instance, I cannot set a bank called Action that will keep these AF on button on Wide SD, Fn 1 on Auto, and keep that. Another bank with different settings for the Function buttons?
great video.

 

[SCoombs]

While I agree about the challenges of long necked birds, as I indicated, the issue doesn’t appear to be with SD/tracking as indicated by the white box. It is only when AF is initiated with the BBF and green box that the issues start. One can watch the little white box follow the bird’s eye around in the frame and then initiating BBF usually turns the white box green on the eye. Then the green box starts to oscillate between the eye and body. it were only limited to long necked birds, I would concede, but the same thing happens when I shoot goldfinches or other subjects. It’s so bad with goldfinches that spot or C1. (1x1) are the only effective way I’ve been able to capture them. Handing off to 3D or another AF mode if the 1x1 C1 is used is not effective as the af ends up on the body.

Yes, I see the same thing a lot where the subject tracking clearly recognizes a subject and locates the eye almost flawlessly as long as the AF is not engaged, but once the AF is engaged it focuses on something else. It's like the subject tracking algorithm finds the subject and waits for the user to do something, and only then when the AF is engaged does the subject detection hand off (how appropriate) to some other algorithm or system which follows a different logic.

I've also thought of the same thing in the past because of the phenomenom, very easy to replicate, whereby the subject detection will recognize the eye of a subject which is at an angle to the camera and put the focus point on the near eye, but even though the AF point appears on that eye and remains there while the AF is engaged the AF will actually focus on the other (rear) eye. It's like all the subject detection does is put the AF point on some location in the frame and then the AF system itself takes over just as it does when a live user places the single point AF.

After many thousands of shots experimenting and trying to figure this all out, I'm convinced that the AF system itself basically takes over once it has a point to focus on and it doesn't really care how it got that point. I suspect that the AF part of the system doesn't necessarily know whether the point its being asked to focus on came from the user or from the subject detect algorithm. This would explain a great deal about these sorts of dissonances that we see a lot between what the subject detect system says and what the camera actually focuses on.

So in a way, I actually think that while Steve is right that subject detection is still new, it may be the strongest part of the camera's AF and the basic focusing part is the part that sometimes doesn't do what we want it to.

 

[IainD]

Am I correct that the Z9 does not have a shooting bank that can be set to keep these settings all together? For instance, I cannot set a bank called Action that will keep these AF on button on Wide SD, Fn 1 on Auto, and keep that. Another bank with different settings for the Function buttons?
great video.

Actually, ignore this. I have worked it out. Thank you.

 

[Fishboy1952]

Great video Steve! I was pretty comfortable with the handoff from say Wide Large to Auto by pressing an Fn button, but often wondered if it would work the other way by releasing an Fn button. Thanks for the insight. TBH, I’ve actually gotten a little “lazy” as Auto has just improved to the point where I keep my Z9 in that mode the majority of the time. But in the last week, I’ve had occasionally had Auto not work the greatest due to a busy background, such that I’ll switch to Wide Small or Wide Large. But I’ll forget to handoff to auto as the bird goes in flight. Good reminder on the basics and getting me to re-focus on the process.

 

[MarkG]

Watched the video... Very curious about the way Nikon AF system works. Coming from Sony A1, I use BBF *with* tracking on AF-ON and BBF w/o tracking on AEL buttons. Separate custom button cycles through available AF areas. It's that simple. I usually leave AF area on Zone and switch as needed. The concept of handoff as well as Wide vs 3D is not so obvious to me. Is Nikon's Z9/Z8 AF offers more useful choices over A1 or is it a complication because Nikon's AF does not work quite as well as Sony, for birds specifically? I'm periodically tempted to try Nikon due to lens selection, but these AF complexities and only two wheels make me nervous.

 

[Mark Garfinkel]

Well, I'm not confused any longer. lol
Thank you, Mark

 

[WonderfulNaturePhotography]

I don't know if this sounds familiar to any of you , but I sometimes have issues to keep enough contact with my index finger on the Fn1 button while also pressing the AF-ON button (as both needs to be pressed constantly) . Problem is that other buttons (like record) are programmed for other important stuff

 

[Chappy]

I don't know if this sounds familiar to any of you , but I sometimes have issues to keep enough contact with my index finger on the Fn1 button while also pressing the AF-ON button (as both needs to be pressed constantly) . Problem is that other buttons (like record) are programmed for other important stuff

You can program a button with the focus mode + AF ON which allows you to push the programmed button to use other AF mode while also turning AF On. No need to push two buttons.