New to the Z8 -- please check the manual before stating Y or Y is broken or asking a simple question

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agrumpyoldsod

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Hello Ladies and Gentlemen

It is wonderful you have your new tools and are learning to use them ;);)

But I am sorry - how about this as an idea -- please check the manual before stating X or Y is broken or asking a very simple question -- all the answers you need are in the guidance -- AND there is very specific guidance about which buttons can be allocated what roles. Almost all can.

Obviously by Manual I mean all the documentation available from the Nikon Download Centre

You can also buy Steve Perry' Z8/Z9 wonderful guide or Thom Hogan's far more detailed bible. Hudson Henry has posted a very detailed explanation on YT which many of us have watched.

If you look at THIS THREAD you will discover guidance and be able to share experience with others who are getting to grips with the Z8.

NOW please also follow this guidance -- set your camera to Stills, SINGLE release mode and Manual Exposure mode -- then go through the settings setting up your camera AND try it out BEFORE exploring every other option -- each of which have CONSEQUENCES when used. Keep TONE MODE in SDR for now.

The following are a list of the top sources of issue in the forum I have contributed to:

NO 1 -- 30, 60, 120 fps ONLY provide JPG (or HEIF) - so obviously RAW file options are Grey'd out == many folk seem to head of to 120fps and get themselves stuck

NO 2 -- if you want to shoot at the highest FPS or the highests resolution and fps format video YOU MUST HAVE a top performing CF Express TYPE B card -- Delkin Black, ProGrade Cobalt or similar -- NO XQD or SD card will support these for more than a very few moments if at all -- the data write speed/volume is simply too large/high for these older slower cards. Sure an older card can last 4-6 seconds and then the camera states it cannot work with the card -- this is because the USER chose to use the WRONG card -- If you want or need to shoot 8.3k 60p HQ N-RAW N-LOG 12-bit footage then you have to have a TOP CFE-B x2 card - A suitable 650GB card fills in 15.19 minutes in High Quality and 25.03 minutes in Normal Quality (most of us should only use Normal quality)

NO 3 -- do not use the SD/UHS ii card as BACKUP unless you want to severely throttle the camera's performance -- no SD card can accept data at the speed at which the Z8 needs when writing long bursts or high data videos. If you "must" have backups - simply select and copy images from your CFE-B card to the SD card when you have finished shooting action or whatever you need to keep safe. BTW - you could use the same time to offload to a mobile device using snapbridge as well.

NO 4 -- the camera will ONLY shoot at 20 fps when shutter speeds faster than 1/200th are used - at 1/200th and a little slower fps drops to 15fps. It drops to even lower rates at slower shutter speeds.

ONLY use Nikon EN-EL 15C, 15B or 15A batteries -- please no more whining -- you have spent $4k on the body an extra $50 for a battery is little for you to have to pay. Buy the 15C if you want the best performance. Battery performance in a mirrorless body is different to a DSLR -- the fact a Mirrorless camera has an EVF means it uses a little more power. You can use a Z8 turned on for between 1 and 1.5 hours. So turn the camera off when you are not using it. Adjust EVF/LCD brightness and change time to standby to reduce battery consumption.

Z lenses Lenses with VR - lock the VR units when they are turned off (or the camera goes into standby) and unlocks when power is on again -- this makes a tiny sound -- get used to it.

Please go to the linked thread and share your experiences and questions there.
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen

It is wonderful you have your new tools and are learning to use them ;);)

But I am sorry - how about this as an idea -- please check the manual before stating x or Y is broken or asking a very simple question -- all the answers you need are in the guidance -- AND there is very specific guidance about which buttons can be allocated what roles. Almost all can.

Obviously by Manual I mean all the documentation available from the Nikon Download Centre

You can also buy Steve Perry' Z8/Z9 wonderful guide or Thom Hogan's far more detailed bible. Hudson Henry has posted a very detailed explanation on YT which many of us have watched.

If you look at THIS THREAD you will discover guidance and be able to share experience with others who are getting to grips with the Z8 -- you can also gain access to my settings spreadsheet and a sample settings file you could just load into your camera (with warnings and caveats if you wish)

NOW please also follow this guidance -- set your camera to Stills, SINGLE release mode and Manual Exposure mode -- then go through the settings setting up your camera AND try it out BEFORE exploring every other option -- each of which have CONSEQUENCES when used. Keep TONE MODE in SDR for now.

CONSEQUENCE NO 1 -- 30, 60, 120 fps ONLY provide JPG (or HEIF) - so obviously RAW file options are Grey'd out == many folk seem to head of to 120fps and get themselves stuck

CONSEQUENCE NO 2 -- if you want to shoot at the highest FPS or the highests resolution and fps format video YOU MUST HAVE a top performing CF Express TYPE B card -- Delkin Black, ProGrade Cobalt or similar -- NO XQD or SD card will support these for more than a very few moments if at all -- the data write speed/volume is simply too large/high for these older slower cards. Sure an older card can last 4-6 seconds and then the camera states it cannot work with the card -- this is because the USER chose to use the WRONG card -- If you want or need to shoot 8.3k 60p HQ N-RAW N-LOG 12-bit footage then you have to have a TOP CFE-B x2 card - A suitable 650GB card fills in 15.19 minutes in High Quality and 25.03 minutes in Normal Quality (most of us should only use Normal quality)

CONSEQUENCE NO 3 -- do not use the SD/UHS ii card as BACKUP unless you want to severely throttle the camera's performance -- no SD card can accept data at the speed at which the Z8 needs when writing long bursts or high data videos. If you "must" have backups - simply select and copy images from your CFE-B card to the SD card when you have finished shooting action or whatever you need to keep safe. BTW - you could use the same time to offload to a mobile device using snapbridge as well.

CONSEQUENCE NO 4 -- the camera will ONLY shoot at 20 fps when shutter speeds faster than 1/200th are used - at 1/200th and a little slower fps drops to 15fps. It drops to even lower rates at slower shutter speeds.

ONLY use Nikon EN-EL 15C, 15B or 15A batteries -- please no more whining -- you have spent $4k on the body an extra $50 for a battery is little for you to have to pay. Buy the 15C is you want the best performance. Battery performance in a mirrorless body is different to a DSLR -- the fact a Mirrorless camera has an EVF means it uses a little more power. You can use a Z8 turned on for between 1 and 1/5 hours. So turn the camera off when you are not using it. Adjust EVF/LCD brightness and change time to standby to reduce battery consumption.

Please go to the linked thread and share your experiences and questions there.
Click to expand...
Well said.....
 
On the other hand, part of the fun of participating in a forum like this is the welcoming spirit for beginners. So from my point of view go ahead and ask whatever question you want to ask. If I know the answer I will be happy to wax philosophical on even the most basic question. But yes, RTFM is always good advice.
 
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OK, I have a different take on this. First, I have no Z8 so no dog in the Z8 hunt, secondly, I am a retired IT guy and have read more technical manuals and documentation than, dare I say it, nearly everyone who would be reading this.

However, having spent 36 years in the IT industry, there are a lot of folks out there who read a manual and end up being more confused than when they started. Coming to a friendly forum of like minded people to ask a question is a logical option. To come to the forum with the answer being "Read the *$&% Manual" is somewhat off-putting.

The OP suggestions of getting one of Steve's books on the camera or watching some of Henry Hudson's instructional videos is, indeed, legitimate advice. I think we could have lived without the "Read the Manual" piece though.

OK, back to normal rant mode now.
Jeff
 
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IMO, questions of any type are fine on a forum like this. Technical documentation can be helpful, but can also be nearly impossible for a new photographer, or a photographer who is coming from a different system, or changing from DSLR to mirrorless, etc.

This comes from someone who spent his whole life as a teacher. Never discourage questions if you want to foster learning and enthusiasm.
 
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Sure it would be great if folks did their basic research with manuals and available online info before posting questions. But I agree with the previous posts that some folks need additional context or better understanding of what various sections of the manual mean or why a given selection might be chosen for very complicated cameras that support a lot of configuration and use options. Forums like these are appropriate places to ask questions and hopefully get helpful answers.
 
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I will remove my shared settings and files and STOP contributing then if this is the only point you took from my post. So far the +VE reaction outweigh the -ve so I may hold of for a while.

Folk need to take a step to look and learn before whining -- most of these basic questions are really easy to find the answers to if folk just take 5 seconds to look.

These are PRO-Level cameras, with a corresponding price andI expect a pro-level approach to their use.

Folk on BCG are far more reasonable than other places. Where one guy is sending his camera back because it only records for 6 seconds in 8.3k to his rotten card.

Come on take responsibility to LOOK and LEARN.
 
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I agree with both sides. Reading the manual is critical, and with the online one there's no excuse to not search for easy terms to find what you're doing. Plus the manual really does hit most of the really simple questions in enough detail to answer them.

That being said, there are a lot of people who buy high end gear who have no idea what they're doing, and don't know what to look for (though that's a different issue).

Imo, the fewer questions we get about some things (like why a card can't handle 8k60 video, or why you set to shoot in raw but are only seeing jpgs) and the more questions we get about complex things or where tradeoffs are involved, the better.
 
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Patrick M said:
yep. And the guy that rubbished his Z9 because the front and rear scroll buttons don't work. He was in P . Oh dear
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Ouch. I didn't see that one, but man... Stuff like that gives me headaches. I can believe it though. I've seen a lot of people make a lot of just... Dumb mistakes/choices because they didn't think at all.

That being said, I also am happy to help with people who want to learn instead of being mad, especially if they have at least made an effort to see what the problem is.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
OK, I have a different take on this. First, I have no Z8 so no dog in the Z8 hunt, secondly, I am a retired IT guy and have read more technical manuals and documentation than, dare I say it, nearly everyone who would be reading this.

However, having spent 36 years in the IT industry, there are a lot of folks out there who read a manual and end up being more confused than when they started. Coming to a friendly forum of like minded people to ask a question is a logical option. To come to the forum with the answer being "Read the *$&% Manual" is somewhat off-putting.

The OP suggestions of getting one of Steve's books on the camera or watching some of Henry Hudson's instructional videos is, indeed, legitimate advice. I think we could have lived without the "Read the Manual" piece though.

OK, back to normal rant mode now.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Thank you for saying this. I am a new Z8 owner. I have been an amateur photographer for 40 years. When digital cameras came about, at the stage I was in my life (young family and lack of money) I got simple digital cameras (Canon Rebel for example) but never dove deep into the digital camera world. Then I retired and got a D850 and heavily invested in what glass I could afford. First thing I did was read the manual and buy Steve’s book (it’s how I found Steve). I felt like I understood the basics. I spent the next year learning and testing and adjusting so no need to constantly visit boards for answers. Fast forward to the Z8 and mirrorless systems. I was so excited for the Z8 announcement and purchased my first mirrorless camera right away. I read everything I could get my hands on including Steve’s Z9 setup and his AF mirrorless edition and watched every video I could find. However, it has been hard to wrap my brain around some of the differences. I can set my camera up like someone else but to understand it is another level. Not everyone learns in the same way and I learn by doing or by watching others demonstrate or discuss what worked and didn’t work for them.

The most disheartening thing for me has been the boards and FB pages I have gone to for mirrorless guidance. I guess I never realized the photography “community” could be so unwelcoming and negative to anyone who doesn’t have their same level of “expertise.” I learned photography because my dad and other adults took the time to talk to me and explain why things were happening with my camera. They helped me problem solve and try again. To me that’s what a community does. And yes I understand the value of reading manuals/guide; I even wrote many in my job. Just because I read a manual or other technical guide doesn’t mean I (or others) will be able to instantly understand the uses and concepts that go along with those instructions. That’s why I come to the boards is to learn those nuances. If everyone could read a manual and be an instantly great photographer, there would be more fabulous photographers and boards wouldn’t be needed except to give us a pat on the back for another great photo we’d taken. While the OP’s camera information is valuable, the tone comes off as somewhat condescending and off-putting. I am hoping that is just some general frustration coming through due to all the new Z8 users’ questions but please be patient with us and allow us to learn. Overall, this is the best photography board I have been on with most people being extremely helpful.
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
I will remove my shared settings and files and STOP contributing then if this is the only point you took from my post. So far the +VE reaction outweigh the -ve so I may hold of for a while.

Folk need to take a step to look and learn before whining -- most of these basic questions are really easy to find the answers to if folk just take 5 seconds to look.

These are PRO-Level cameras, with a corresponding price andI expect a pro-level approach to their use.

Folk on BCG are far more reasonable than other places. Where one guy is sending his camera back because it only records for 6 seconds in 8.3k to his rotten card.

Come on take responsibility to LOOK and LEARN.
Click to expand...
At the risk of being considered rude, if you want to take your marbles home and not play any more, it's 100% your choice. My life won't change one way or the other.

I think your initial post and subsequent response is quite arrogant and elitist. I do not know you well enough to determine if that is your true personality or your writing style. At any rate, it leaves a negative impression on those who may read this while honestly searching for answers to even basic questions.

Over and out, not responding any further. These types of discussions tend to go off the rails quickly.

[edited to tone down my initial reaction]

Jeff
 
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While the ideal is that new owners read at least the basics in the manuals, the common problem is failing to read through a thread before reposting the same stuff. I find it's easy to overlook something, but I then delete a redundant post to try reduce clutter.

OTTH I try and answer questions and provide links, because BCG has accumulated a wealth of knowledge in its threads, not only links to reviews etc, but members have taken the trouble to write up and share personal experiences, and share advice on products and places.

No one here knows each and every arcane menu setting in these modern ILCs, and some of the concepts are downright arcane, with complicated settings (eg I finally stumbled on the way to lock the focus point in the Z9 this week). Nikon's manuals are not the optimum, which fortunately creates the educational market for the books by Steve and others, and the more "near-line" help source, with which we interface in forums.

My experience with students is one learns by teaching/sharing, which includes re-reading sources and re-checking settings to try and explain a subject.
 
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I think the strength...and benefit…of forums is the ability to ask questions, get guidance, form community…and the forums at BCG have done all of that. I think learning about a new body is a combination of researching the manual, purchasing and reading guides AND asking questions that may be common knowledge to some, an overlooked page or reference in the manual to another, or even those that have been asked before. I’ve been a teacher for 44 years…students ask questions, often the same ones repeatedly…there’s a difference between information (the manual) and knowledge (internalizing that information so that is become useful and second nature); if I don’t have the time (or energy) to respond to a thread, I can move past it; if I do have the time, if I can make someone’s understanding of the kit in their hand a bit better, I will. We always have a choice. And honestly? Asking questions in a forum like this is taking responsibility to look and learn...it's just taking a different path to the instruction.
 
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I agree with both sides of this argument. This is also why I would really love the ability to ignore a topic permanently. I tend to just get a list of new topics and the ability to ignore would make my searching for topics of interest quicker.

That said, I'm one of those that reads/googles extensively before I ask a question. Even then there have been a few times when I just missed something or misunderstood, causing me much embarrassment when I saw the answer. It happens. :oops:

My pet peeve is those that seem to think they can get a complete course in a subject in the space of a simple reply.
 
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While there are points to be made for both sides, I tend to agree with Andy. I've seen a growing trend (and not just in photography) where some people seem to feel it is easier to post a question than look up a solution on their own. Granted, there are some who are confused and Nikon instructions have been less than clear for many decades. Modern cameras are more computer than camera and some of us old folks who weren't brought up with computers may struggle with the interface between human and machine. (The HR Director's secretary where I work was recently overheard to say older people (retirees) should not be on social media)
It's hard to discern from a post what camp the poster fits into. I look at the post and if it seems to me the OP isn't making a reasonable effort to help themselves, I'll move along.
 
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My hat is off to the Nikon marketing group. First the Z9 and now the Z8 have pulled in a new cohort of photographers, many with essentially no experience using digital cameras or at best a Rebel or D35xx series camera. With that background, I imagine picking up a Z9 is a bit daunting. Overall, I'm glad that so many newer photographers are buying Z8 and Z9 cameras. I want Nikon to make a profit so they can keep designing and producing top quality lenses. Some of the newbie questions are a bit silly. "Where in the menu can I....." It is hard to bridge the gap between that person and the photographer who shoots 150 day/years in Costa Rica or Africa. I would love to see more questions like "Shooting a bear in the water against a dark, conifer forest background, the dynamic range is too large for my camera. what techniques work best for you? Opening shadows in post, circular polarizing filters (are drop in filters worth it on longer lenses) What haven't I thought through yet?" Alas, we seem stuck with "is Sony lens better than the new Nikon 180-600?" Just wishing for more.
 
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When I told my kid to do her own homework and find sources for the info she required - she told me she did - I was one of her sources.
Kid 1 , Me 0

fcotterill said:
While the ideal is that new owners read at least the basics in the manuals, the common problem is failing to read through a thread before reposting the same stuff. I find it's easy to overlook something, but I then delete a redundant post to try reduce clutter.

OTTH I try and answer questions and provide links, because BCG has accumulated a wealth of knowledge in its threads, not only links to reviews etc, but members have taken the trouble to write up and share personal experiences, and share advice on products and places.

No one here knows each and every arcane menu setting in these modern ILCs, and some of the concepts are downright arcane, with complicated settings (eg I finally stumbled on the way to lock the focus point in the Z9 this week). Nikon's manuals are not the optimum, which fortunately creates the educational market for the books by Steve and others, and the more "near-line" help source, with which we interface in forums.

My experience with students is one learns by teaching/sharing, which includes re-reading sources and re-checking settings to try and explain a subject.
Click to expand...
Well said - and I also keep thinking how grateful I am every time someone helps me.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
OK, I have a different take on this. First, I have no Z8 so no dog in the Z8 hunt, secondly, I am a retired IT guy and have read more technical manuals and documentation than, dare I say it, nearly everyone who would be reading this.

However, having spent 36 years in the IT industry, there are a lot of folks out there who read a manual and end up being more confused than when they started. Coming to a friendly forum of like minded people to ask a question is a logical option. To come to the forum with the answer being "Read the *$&% Manual" is somewhat off-putting.

The OP suggestions of getting one of Steve's books on the camera or watching some of Henry Hudson's instructional videos is, indeed, legitimate advice. I think we could have lived without the "Read the Manual" piece though.

OK, back to normal rant mode now.
Jeff
Click to expand...
Jeff, I concur.

Back in the days when I was still in the lab, we often joked that system admins' job is 90% reading the manual, 10% pressing Alt + Ctl + F4. lol .

Having said this, most camera manuals are not written or organized with photographers in mind; often the illustrations are cycled through various models without any change, often in decades; the drawings are crude, layouts are very cramped; with each camera getting more complicated, the manuals have gone from 200pgs to 600pgs.

The only exception is Olympus' manuals, their design is clean and concise, with real photos dotted throughout, the text is easy to read to the common folks.

OTOH, more users turn to video instructions nowadays, the most popular learning platforms are videos.

Oliver
 
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