To which I would add:If I were Steve, I would put a stickie in every board with the title:
"Before you ask a question, ask ChatGPT or Siri or Alexa."
Oliver
"After you realize that all 3 gave you the wrong answer, come back here"
New to the Z8 -- please check the manual before stating Y or Y is broken or asking a simple question
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"After you realize that all 3 gave you the wrong answer, come back here"
I have a question,.I guess we need a FAQ category..... <just kidding!>
What is FAQ???I have a question,.
It stands for "for Andy questions." Why do you think he wants you to read the manual? In fairness, the OP has been generous with his time and expertise here, and I appreciate it.
the Grumpy Old Sod really has been a source of good info and at times I wonder where the hell he got all his experience from. So ye - give him his due. he does deserve it. He certainly isn't the old grumpy old sod here - he is the only one that admits it though.
Sometimes one just have to vent. it might not help someone else - but it might make you feel better.
Larry Mc
New member
If you don't like the question , you are not required to knock it - just move past it.
Very well said! Thank you !
Thank you Steve! You are an excellent photographer and perfect educator!As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:
I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.
In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!
My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Well-known member
In all civility—and speaking as a person who not only reads operator manuals like you, I have also been in the business of publishing technical reference content for decades—I must say I do not agree.
This is a discussion forum. If you can't skip questions, threads, and discussions that you yourself would never dream of initiating, then that's your issue, not ours.
Everyone has their own level of reading and research ability. We aren't all like you.
I hope you can learn to be more considerate of the spectrum of differences in large communities.
Note that you may have already caused some people to not post a question for fear they would be judged harshly; so they may struggle on without a better understand, which they may have received from a more conceptual conversation than they will get from a technical owners manual.
Thanks for listening,
Chris
This is a discussion forum. If you can't skip questions, threads, and discussions that you yourself would never dream of initiating, then that's your issue, not ours.
Everyone has their own level of reading and research ability. We aren't all like you.
I hope you can learn to be more considerate of the spectrum of differences in large communities.
Note that you may have already caused some people to not post a question for fear they would be judged harshly; so they may struggle on without a better understand, which they may have received from a more conceptual conversation than they will get from a technical owners manual.
Thanks for listening,
Chris
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O
Well-known member
Reading a instruction manual is excellent advice, highly recommended, and very helpful. My girlfriend is always at me to read instructions LOL.
For some people it can be a little daunting and a bit of a challenge, if their not up to speed technically in certain areas, this is where U Tube videos can be of help, like Steve or others produce.
Myself, i have been a victim of dyslexia most of my life, i find reading a lot of detailed information becomes a blur after a short while, i get overwhelmed with a lack of comprehension after the first page. I failed 6th grade primary school.
I need to be shown physically how something is done or works for it to really sink in, a little bit at a time then practice and then some more etc.
I find writing in this forum for me with help from spell check has been a wonderful experience and actually therapeutic, believe it or not. My girlfriend has said she cant believe how much i have improved, and it seems i am enjoying reading a little more than before...........
Regardless of my handicap-limitations, most of what you ever want to know about operating your camera etc is in the instruction manuals.
But i do feel Steve's U Tube videos are a real asset and for me far easy to follow.
Plus less people are reading these days.
Only an opinion
jmurthy
Well-known member
The mind of a great teacher! thank you Steve!As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:
I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.
In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!
My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it.
Annamaria
Well-known member
The difference between RTFM and watching Steve’s video or asking knowledgeable, helpful folks is the latter puts in in layman’s terms.
O
Well-known member
Perfectly put, 100%...As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:
I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.
In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!
My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it.
Sometimes things get a runaway with super technical wizardry discussions and that's perfectly fine, but as the wizards are turned of by menial repetitive questions and answers equally many less technically orientated photographers or even new member's or people with limited experience looking to learn can and are intimidated by what they read or see and say wow this its to expert level for me or i feel a little inferior or scared or embarrassed to get involved, and move on.
I mean sometimes you can get the feeling unless you have a Z9 Z8 A1 and your not into mirror less and 3D tracking etc and expensive exotic gear like a 600 f4 Tcs 400 2.8 Tcs, or other expensive gear, your in the wrong place.
At times some people dare not tell anyone they use a D600 or D4 still on 150-500 Sigma and do wild life, its embarrassing......or is it.
Only an opinion
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O
Well-known member
Good and a real point
P
philippe
Guest
Maybe one solution is to have a sub-forum for "absolute beginners". I think the issue is not "dumb" questions - the issue is asking questions that could easily be and should be answered by actually reading the relevant handbooks that come with the respective cameras.
There is however a secondary problem - namely that a user interprets a problem arising out of their inability to use or infamilarity with their camera as being evidence of a systemic problem with the camera and/or brand in its own right.
I was thinking about that and it is a good idea. But many of the issues/questions are related to new cameras in the hands of a very experienced photographer. New photographers assume they don't know the answer - even after going to the manual. Experienced photographers are not used to the steep learning curve associated with new cameras and new technology. That's where Jarod and others get into trouble using an unfamiliar camera. For example, Steve took 3 months or more learning the AF system of the Z9 - and even after a couple of months of intensive use was making changes to settings and technique. I know Jason O'Dell had exactly the same experience for his Z9 book.
I've mentioned before that the steepest learning curve for me was my first Nikon Z camera, followed by the Z8/Z9 where you have a very powerful tool but it needs study, practice, testing, and adaptability to fully take advantage of the capabilities.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i will predict that a noob subforum will be wildly unsuccessful
Jim J
New member
Why not have a forum that addresses the FAQ's for z 8's? Every time there is a basic question, take the best answer, marry the question to the answer and move both to the Z8 (or other model) FAQ section. If that single answer does not give enough information, refer the inquirer to purchase one of Steve' excellent books on the subject. Steve wants traffic to the site, we all want to help each other be better photographers, and it allows us all to get the information we want and need and avoid the posts we don't want or need to see.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
it’s a good idea to maintain faqs, but does take energy. i run a dog sport photography group and i must admit i woefully neglect the faqs due to procrastination and lack of energy
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John Navitsky
Well-known member
note the value of the faqs isn’t that they won’t ask, it’s that you can point them to the answer without writing it out again
Mitesh
Well-known member
I agree with the many others who have suggested that any member should feel welcome to post any photography-related question, regardless of whether they’ve attempted to find the answer for themselves or not. Those who are annoyed by such questions can ignore them. We are suggesting to those who may ask basic questions to be responsible adults and attempt self-help first, so is it any different to suggest to those who may be annoyed or frustrated by such questions to similarly be responsible adults and ignore them?
If one feels strongly that they’d prefer the questioner to use available resources to find the answer themselves, it’s easy to just answer the questioner by providing the relevant links and suggesting they refer to the material and then return for more help if they still need it.
Additional sub forums, stickies and FAQs will quickly clutter the site. How many of those FAQ will we need (and who will keep them updated) for each camera model of each brand? If someone can’t be troubled to read the material that’s sitting in the box along with the camera, what’s the likelihood they’re going to peruse all those notes before asking their question anyway?
Keep it simple, in my opinion.
If one feels strongly that they’d prefer the questioner to use available resources to find the answer themselves, it’s easy to just answer the questioner by providing the relevant links and suggesting they refer to the material and then return for more help if they still need it.
Additional sub forums, stickies and FAQs will quickly clutter the site. How many of those FAQ will we need (and who will keep them updated) for each camera model of each brand? If someone can’t be troubled to read the material that’s sitting in the box along with the camera, what’s the likelihood they’re going to peruse all those notes before asking their question anyway?
Keep it simple, in my opinion.
Not A Speck Of Cereal
Well-known member
There is no cure for the natural laws of social media, except tolerance for the way it is.
Chris
Chris
P
philippe
Guest
Then a sub-forum for "those who have been unable to find a solution to their problem by looking through the camera manual". That covers all levels of experience.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
are you going to hang out there and answer questions?
P
philippe
Guest
Me? No. As someone who worked for a good chunk of their life in university education, I assume people have done their research and due diligence before asking others. Self-directed learning is always the best way to learn.
The problem is that, before too long, the forum won't be dominated with Z8 questions but rather with questions about another camera and lens. It's overflowing at the moment because of the new Z8 shooters, but a dedicated forum would wither and die in a a few months. An FAQ thread might work, but, honestly are there that many repeated threads? (Honest question - I've been away and haven't spent as much time here as I normally do).
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