New to the Z8 -- please check the manual before stating Y or Y is broken or asking a simple question

[John Navitsky]

Me? No. As someone who worked for a good chunk of their life in university education, I assume people have done their research and due diligence before asking others. Self-directed learning is always the best way to learn.

exactly. basically nobody will do it, so it will be useless

 

[John Navitsky]

The problem is that, before too long, the forum won't be dominated with Z8 questions but rather with questions about another camera and lens. It's overflowing at the moment because of the new Z8 shooters, but a dedicated forum would wither and die in a a few months. An FAQ thread might work, but, honestly are there that many repeated threads? (Honest question - I've been away and haven't spent as much time here as I normally do).

faqs really need to be linkable documents and ones that multiple people can edit. wikis are probably the most reasonable way to do it. unfortunately it’s a fair amount of work and you need multiple people willing to work on it

 

[M R Opp]

I thought some of the "consequences" in the OP were helpful. Too bad they were presented in such a condescending manner rather than framed as a short FAQ list

 

[philippe]

exactly. basically nobody will do it, so it will be useless

That is just my approach - I wouldnt necessarily generalise it to the wider community. If I saw that a person had made a genuine effort to find a solution or that their question was not something that could be answered through the available documentation, I would certainly help if I could.

What bugs me more is when a person concludes that camera xyz is somehow generally deficient or problematic rather than first ruling out the very real possibility of user error.

 

[John Navitsky]

What bugs me more is when a person concludes that camera xyz is somehow generally deficient or problematic rather than first ruling out the very real possibility of user error.

yah, that’s pretty humorous. i can’t remember the specifics but i remember seeing a doozie of an example of that the other day on fb

 

[Gov]

One thing that might have irritated the OP and other expert members of our forum is that sometimes new users put something like, "the autofocus mode button on my new {camera model} doesn't work" or "my new {camera model} card door is broken" in the subject header, rather than "question about the focus mode on a {camera model}" or "is there a trick to opening the card door on a {camera model}?" Presenting the question as if there is something wrong with the camera when the poster really doesn't know what's wrong gets the discussion off to a bad start. This forum is a great place to learn and the help given is often much clearer than in the manual. For the most part our experts help by giving answers to even the most basic questions.

 

[Winston Churchill (Sir)]

“If you want to learn something, read about it.
If you want to understand something, write about it.
If you want to master something, teach it.”​

― Yogi Bhajan

 

[Midway]

I can’t believe I just read through this entire thread. I tend to skip threads with titles that aren’t relative to me and I have no current interest in the Z 8. As a Z 9 owner there is a lot of crossover to where I could be interested but I would need enough detail in the thread title to where I feel I can either help or learn.

Veering off topic but along the relevant details in thread titles, I really like the “Latest Images” and “Popular Images” links at the top. Threads I would pass over because, for example, the title highlighted human traits and emotions without any hint of the wildlife represented in the pictures, I now take time to appreciate.

Directions!? I don't need no stinkin' directions! I’ll admit I dislike reading manuals and user guides. I have also purchased some eBooks but get bored quickly and never seem to finish. Mirrorless and wildlife photography are new to me but I have decades of Nikon SLR and DSLR experience so the basics and many of the advanced features are familiar. If I have a specific type of photography planned I will prepare and prefer to research, read relevant documentation and search forums for others that may have already asked something similar. But that’s just the way I learn. I have no problem if others prefer to post a question on the forum. I only ask the question posed is as clear as possible to where I would offer to help or be interested in learning more about the issue or I will likely never open it. I realize that might be difficult for someone very inexperienced who may not know what they don’t know and are challenged to even phrase the question clearly.

 

[Activert]

What I like the most about this forum, which makes for me so special among all other forums, is the diversity of photographers and their background: from professionals to amateurs, from beginners to advanced. But all we have something in commun which is our love and passion for wildlife photography. We all learn form each others knowledge, mistakes and success.

The User’s Manuel remains for me the last option as a reference and I will go through it to resolve a tech problem that I don’t find it on internet or in this forum. I downloaded Steve’s ebook about the setting of the Z8 and the Z 9 on my phone, my pad and my laptop. It is everything I need wherever I am. Why? For me, Steve explain everything in clear and easy way to understand that the Manuel could do it for me.

There are amazing photographers in this forum, whenever I need to learn something, I know that there will be someone to help me. I am a photographer and not videogapher. I love to do some good videos with my Z9 and Z 8. I had some people from this forum who gave me all what I need to become better one and shared with me their best knowledge and setting. Even some, gave me their private information to contact them. Is not amazing?

I think, everybody should feel welcome to open any tread related to wildlife they want and to ask their questions. I don’t see any problem with that, everyone can choose what he or she likes to read and to respond to. If you don’t like a thread or it does not interest you just skip it, don’t read it or reply to it and nobody will judge you.

 

[John Navitsky]

One thing that might have irritated the OP and other expert members of our forum is that sometimes new users put something like, "the autofocus mode button on my new {camera model} doesn't work"

sure, but those examples show that the poster doesn’t know enough about what they don’t know to help themselves by looking up an answer or reading a manual. they basically need to take a photography fundamentals class and maybe then some.

so are we going to say “go take a couple of classes, then read the manual and then cone back to us” or should we help them limp along so they can start using their fancy new camera which was probably a big deal for them?

i recall some discussions a while back, lamenting the potential death of photography. we should consider if we want to be agents to encourage people to love photography, or if we want them to get disillusioned and put that big purchase on the shelf and abandon their dreams of making cool pictures

 

[Activert]

sure, but those examples show that the poster doesn’t know enough about what they don’t know to help themselves by looking up an answer or reading a manual. they basically need to take a photography fundamentals class and maybe then some.

so are we going to say “go take a couple of classes, then read the manual and then cone back to us” or should we help them limp along so they can start using their fancy new camera which was probably a big deal for them?

Or you can refer them to watch Steve’s videos and buy and read his ebook. They will become better photographer very quickly.

 

[la551ve3]

The User’s Manuel remains for me the last option as a reference and I will go through it to resolve a tech problem that I don’t find it on internet or in this forum. I downloaded Steve’s ebook about the setting of the Z8 and the Z 9 on my phone, my pad and my laptop. It is everything I need wherever I am. Why? For me, Steve explain everything in clear and easy way to understand that the Manuel could do it for me.

I am with you on this one. I can't remember the last time I read a user manual. I think it might have been the Nikon D50. Dont think I even looked at the Z8 manual. Steve's manuals and videos is all I really need because it focusses only on features in which I am interested in. If I need something not covered in these books/videos I will google it. If that doesn't work I ask here. If my questions annoys someone, ignore me or block me.

 

[Activert]

I am with you on this one. I can't remember the last time I read a user manual. I think it might have been the Nikon D50. Dont think I even looked at the Z8 manual. Steve's manuals and videos is all I really need because it focusses only on features in which I am interested in. If I need something not covered in these books/videos I will google it. If that doesn't work I ask here. If my questions annoys someone, ignore me or block me.

i do the same. I find it the most not boring way of learning

 

[Drbobcameraguy]

I will remove my shared settings and files and STOP contributing then if this is the only point you took from my post. So far the +VE reaction outweigh the -ve so I may hold of for a while.

Folk need to take a step to look and learn before whining -- most of these basic questions are really easy to find the answers to if folk just take 5 seconds to look.

These are PRO-Level cameras, with a corresponding price andI expect a pro-level approach to their use.

Folk on BCG are far more reasonable than other places. Where one guy is sending his camera back because it only records for 6 seconds in 8.3k to his rotten card.

Come on take responsibility to LOOK and LEARN.

I get the plus and minus but what is the ve? I can't find it in my manual.

 

[arbitrage]

Some people are superior and Andy Miller, to me, seems to be one of those people. When he first got on this forum he posted a message to me that said, literally, "go f#%$ yourself" because he thought I was criticizing Nikon for something, Steve quickly took it down. Since then I simply pass up on most of his posts, as he could learn to do when he does not want to see a post. It's too bad about his attitude, really, because he does have knowledge to share and I don't think he realizes how he can be viewed with some of what he says. Yes, some people ask stupid or silly questions, some people don't want to read a manual, and so on and so forth, and so goes life on a public forum. I'm not surprised he posted what he did.

His username over on Fred Miranda forums is probably more apt......

You can see it in his signature on these forums....

 

[coachjohn57]

The problem is that, before too long, the forum won't be dominated with Z8 questions but rather with questions about another camera and lens. It's overflowing at the moment because of the new Z8 shooters, but a dedicated forum would wither and die in a a few months. An FAQ thread might work, but, honestly are there that many repeated threads? (Honest question - I've been away and haven't spent as much time here as I normally do).

Steve, at least from my perspective, they’re aren’ that many repeated threads; it almost becomes a question of granularity, and therein lies the rub. For example…are there a lot of questions about CF cards? Yes…and there are repeated answers recommending Delkin Black and ProGrade Cobalt, warnings about cheaper brands, discussions about Angelbird, etc. When I first started looking at a migration to mirrorless, I asked a question or two, did a lot of research on my own, searched the forums here and made my decision. Yet as more and more people make the leap (and the Z8, at least for the Nikon world, triggered an increase in people coming over to mirrorless), questions are going to be repeated, maybe in a more nuanced way, or asking about newer card models, etc. It’s not a big deal…and forum members can choose to skip a thread or answer a thread…we always have a choice...and we have a choice about whether or not to voice our displeasure if we feel a question has been repeated one too many times, although I then have to ask to what end? It’s just a question that someone asked with all sincerity…and we were all new to this at one time or another.

 

[Whiskeyman]

For me, there is a difference between asking a question on the forum and stating that a camera is not working correctly or is broken beause it's not doing something it's not designed to do.

Either way, there is a teachable moment. How successful it is often depends upon the initial response.

 

[Nobby]

Steve,

I love this forum and this thread is not what BCG is about

In my world "no question is a bad question", and if your don't like the question move on with a click of the button

I started with my first DSLR and your site got me on the road with basic questions about setting up the D500. I was pushing the budget then along with buying the 200-500 to get in to wildlife photography] This was the beginning of 2018 and now seven books later and many kit changes I am still learning and keep calling myself an amateur [who can hold his own] as I keep learning every day

Many other are on that journey or just starting and don't need to question if this kit is not up to scratch, or can I ask this question while they learn

Photograph is a bug that you can not let go, tech will always evolve but taking a good photo is in the eye of the photographer as you learn your craft

I have received so much help on this forum by reading the posts with questions that I also needed to ask. [many basic questions but this helps build clarity that I am going in the right direction or opens a question to resolve]

Due to this I have even been able to help others along with gaining real help from the members of the forum [including the member from the start of this post through to many other that I recognise]

Thank you to everyone but if this thread keeps building can we cancel it and get back to being BCG members that add value every day

 

[gdecamp]

Amen Nobby! If everyone just read the manual Steve and many others wouldn't exist as teachers. People need teachers and once you learn something it's a great treat to be able to teach others what you know and when you do you become even smarter in that area. It's a big business and a Steve does a great job and so do others but I've always thought Steve was a step above.

Many moons ago when Art Morris started his Birds as Art, BirdPhotographers.Net website forums I was the moderator of the Eager to Learn forum. It was great fun to help newbies learn and I learned lots from helping them. I'm an old fart now and just enjoy my days out doing what I enjoy. I'm always willing to answer questions but I'm not here all the time, I'm either out with my camera or mowing the lawn but send a message to me and I'll be sure to get back to anyone eventually! It won't be that long honest!!

 

[EricKlees]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen

It is wonderful you have your new tools and are learning to use them

But I am sorry - how about this as an idea -- please check the manual before stating X or Y is broken or asking a very simple question -- all the answers you need are in the guidance -- AND there is very specific guidance about which buttons can be allocated what roles. Almost all can.

Obviously by Manual I mean all the documentation available from the Nikon Download Centre

You can also buy Steve Perry' Z8/Z9 wonderful guide or Thom Hogan's far more detailed bible. Hudson Henry has posted a very detailed explanation on YT which many of us have watched.

If you look at THIS THREAD you will discover guidance and be able to share experience with others who are getting to grips with the Z8.

NOW please also follow this guidance -- set your camera to Stills, SINGLE release mode and Manual Exposure mode -- then go through the settings setting up your camera AND try it out BEFORE exploring every other option -- each of which have CONSEQUENCES when used. Keep TONE MODE in SDR for now.

The following are a list of the top sources of issue in the forum I have contributed to:

NO 1 -- 30, 60, 120 fps ONLY provide JPG (or HEIF) - so obviously RAW file options are Grey'd out == many folk seem to head of to 120fps and get themselves stuck

NO 2 -- if you want to shoot at the highest FPS or the highests resolution and fps format video YOU MUST HAVE a top performing CF Express TYPE B card -- Delkin Black, ProGrade Cobalt or similar -- NO XQD or SD card will support these for more than a very few moments if at all -- the data write speed/volume is simply too large/high for these older slower cards. Sure an older card can last 4-6 seconds and then the camera states it cannot work with the card -- this is because the USER chose to use the WRONG card -- If you want or need to shoot 8.3k 60p HQ N-RAW N-LOG 12-bit footage then you have to have a TOP CFE-B x2 card - A suitable 650GB card fills in 15.19 minutes in High Quality and 25.03 minutes in Normal Quality (most of us should only use Normal quality)

NO 3 -- do not use the SD/UHS ii card as BACKUP unless you want to severely throttle the camera's performance -- no SD card can accept data at the speed at which the Z8 needs when writing long bursts or high data videos. If you "must" have backups - simply select and copy images from your CFE-B card to the SD card when you have finished shooting action or whatever you need to keep safe. BTW - you could use the same time to offload to a mobile device using snapbridge as well.

NO 4 -- the camera will ONLY shoot at 20 fps when shutter speeds faster than 1/200th are used - at 1/200th and a little slower fps drops to 15fps. It drops to even lower rates at slower shutter speeds.

ONLY use Nikon EN-EL 15C, 15B or 15A batteries -- please no more whining -- you have spent $4k on the body an extra $50 for a battery is little for you to have to pay. Buy the 15C if you want the best performance. Battery performance in a mirrorless body is different to a DSLR -- the fact a Mirrorless camera has an EVF means it uses a little more power. You can use a Z8 turned on for between 1 and 1.5 hours. So turn the camera off when you are not using it. Adjust EVF/LCD brightness and change time to standby to reduce battery consumption.

Z lenses Lenses with VR - lock the VR units when they are turned off (or the camera goes into standby) and unlocks when power is on again -- this makes a tiny sound -- get used to it.

Please go to the linked thread and share your experiences and questions there.

I feel this is a bit condescending for a lot of reasons. The point of the forum is to ask and give help. A bit of the fun of the forum is to engage with other photographers. Some also may not want to read or fully grasp the explanations in a technical manual. As an IT guy, I'm all to familiar with is.

I can understand if people aren't at least searching the forum for a topic and start creating 3 4 5 topics on the same thing in short order, that gets to be a bit much but everyone should get that it is ok to ask questions here.

I'm an advanced photographer and have no issues helping beginners or advanced photographers, answering questions. Funny know why they need to read a 900+issue technical manual if the feel they can ask here.

 

[TonyDownunder]

There are many reasonable comments and reactions here, but the intent crashes with the comment “Folk need to take a step to look and learn before whining”. The last word says the true intent and is disappointing.

 

[EricKlees]

I will remove my shared settings and files and STOP contributing then if this is the only point you took from my post. So far the +VE reaction outweigh the -ve so I may hold of for a while.

Folk need to take a step to look and learn before whining -- most of these basic questions are really easy to find the answers to if folk just take 5 seconds to look.

These are PRO-Level cameras, with a corresponding price andI expect a pro-level approach to their use.

Folk on BCG are far more reasonable than other places. Where one guy is sending his camera back because it only records for 6 seconds in 8.3k to his rotten card.

Come on take responsibility to LOOK and LEARN.

Do you realize how many people bought a Z9 and now a Z8? If so, you should know that the majority aren't pro photographers, but are Nikon users that waited for Nikon to get their crap together with the AF system in a mirrorless camera. Some are amateurs, some hobbiests, some advanced and some pro.

Some can teach themselves, some need help dune may never fully matter a pro camera. The Z8 isn't a Z9 but close and will have the same leaning curve.

I don't get all the venom in this topic

 

[Steve W]

Cameras have evolved to the stage that I’m not sure what else we could or should expect them to do. Maybe the next development could be voice interaction for some of the more basic functions at least.

 

[philippe]

Do you realize how many people bought a Z9 and now a Z8? If so, you should know that the majority aren't pro photographers, but are Nikon users that waited for Nikon to get their crap together with the AF system in a mirrorless camera. Some are amateurs, some hobbiests, some advanced and some pro.

Some can teach themselves, some need help dune may never fully matter a pro camera. The Z8 isn't a Z9 but close and will have the same leaning curve.

I don't get all the venom in this topic

One reason why some might be short on patience is not because some contributors might need assistance - we all do in various ways - but that some contributors start complaining about the camera as if does not work or suggesting that there must be some generic problem with its focusing system etc, when in some instances it is more likely that it is user error or user inexperience that is at fault. In addition, some are perhaps a bit lacking in proactivity when it comes to taking out the camera manual and trying to solve the problem by themselves.

 

[philippe]

For me, there is a difference between asking a question on the forum and stating that a camera is not working correctly or is broken beause it's not doing something it's not designed to do.

Exactly. And it is the second of these that is very often the real problem. People should learn how to use their cameras first, before jumping to the conclusion that their autofocus is broken or Nikon are crap for focusing when they are clearly not using the correct settings.