New to the Z8 -- please check the manual before stating Y or Y is broken or asking a simple question

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It's a balancing act. We all are here because we want to help others. But especially on social media, there are a lot of very basic questions with incorrect or incomplete answers. For example, when it comes to memory cards, we have a lot of posts here and the manual does very little good. On the other hand, if someone is not using a recent Nikon camera all the posts about memory cards for the Z8 and Z9 can become a bit discouraging.

Probably what bothers me more is complaints about the camera and focus modes when it's so easy to get great results if the photographer has the skills. The camera is just a tool, and the settings help the photographer to operate the tool effectively. But it's up to the photographer to use old and new capabilities to get the shot. That may require a lot more than just picking a setting - you have ot pick the right setting and use the camera in the right way.
 
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As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:

I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.

In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!

My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it. :)
 
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EricBowles said:
It's a balancing act. We all are here because we want to help others. But especially on social media, there are a lot of very basic questions with incorrect or incomplete answers. For example, when it comes to memory cards, we have a lot of posts here and the manual does very little good. On the other hand, if someone is not using a recent Nikon camera all the posts about memory cards for the Z8 and Z9 can become a bit discouraging.

Probably what bothers me more is complaints about the camera and focus modes when it's so easy to get great results if the photographer has the skills. The camera is just a tool, and the settings help the photographer to operate the tool effectively. But it's up to the photographer to use old and new capabilities to get the shot. That may require a lot more than just picking a setting - you have ot pick the right setting and use the camera in the right way.
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You hit the nail on the head when you said it’s a balancing act; whether here or on social media (although social media does tend to introduce its own set of issues, lol). You make a good point about AF as well…that it requires “a lot more than just picking a setting - you have to pick the right setting and use the camera in the right way.” For everything that the latest generation of cameras brings to the table with AI assisted AF, none of the modes available will yield the perfect results in every scenario…and sometimes it is a bit of trial and error to discover what works best for any given individual or under any particular set of conditions. That’s what makes forums like this one so valuable; we can learn from the expertise and experience of others.
 
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Steve said:
As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:

I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.

In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!

My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it. :)
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This. Yes. Thank you, Steve.
 
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Steve said:
As someone who has a little experience helping people with camera problems, I agree with Eric and would add this:

I think many times it's easy to tell someone to look it up rather than ask a question. However, in my experience they don't know what to look up. No one is born with this knowledge, and the truth is I find when people are stuck it's often an issue with not even knowing where to start and feeling overwhelmed by the manual and all the settings. If you don't know what you're searching for in a manual, it can't help you. In addition, this is far more likely to happen with new users than more experienced ones, hence you end up with a lot of basic queries that, to an experienced shooter, seem pretty easy to find in the manual.

In addition, keep in mind that I think a lot of people are in a little over their heads with the top-of-the-line pro cameras. Many have never had a camera that complex before, but are sort of "forced" into it since in many brands (Nikon in particular) difference between mid-range performance and top performance is more of a chasm than a mere gap. In short, to get the performance they want, they need more camera than they would have purchased in the past. Add to the fact that, for many, this is their first experience with mirrorless, it makes for a lot of questions!

My advice? If there's a topic you feel is asked too often or you've grown very of answering, just skip it. :)
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I wasn't going to respond any more to this thread but wanted to say I agree with what you're saying here. Over my 36 year career in IT I've read tens of thousands of pages of technical documentation, written thousands of pages of technical documentation and been an instructor in training classes teaching sales and marketing people how to use new applications. Even with that background, some of the camera manuals are difficult to understand and how setting A interacts with setting B isn't always clear. Additionally, many of the tutorial videos and even books about the camera are not written by or for nature photographers. How we set up a camera to be used in the field is different than how a studio or portrait photographer would set up his or her camera. It makes perfect sense that a person interested in nature photography would come here to ask a question about their camera.

Personally, I'm an open book and have no secrets. I'm willing to answer any question to which I feel competent to answer regardless of if it is about settings, gear or technique. As a nature photographer, I want to share nature with everyone I meet and build awareness. If I can help someone to also reach that goal my time has not been wasted.

Jeff
 
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Hmm. Well, this last post from Steve has really surprised me. Possibly I missed something within one of the other posts, but there didn't seem to be any reason to run and tell someone that they got their feelings hurt.

Regardless, I too have spent my professional career in IT. That's 38 years and counting. There are several Linux (server OS) distributions out there that have developed a bad reputation for burning up new users and telling them "go RTFM". I've been a hobbyist photographer most of my life, but will be new to mirrorless when my Z8 arrives. I'm the type of person who pours over the manual, any available docs, and helpful forums before I post a question.

Others aren't wired that way. I agree with those people who say "just ignore the question and move on if it bothers you". Those that don't mind will try to answer the question and help the person. Perhaps the OP's "Consequences" could be distilled into a helpful intro post for new Z8 users. That's the way many of the tech forums I contribute to would do it.
 
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KevCan said:
what about we put some of the common knowledge posts on top so it is easier for people to search/skim through. I know there are a lot of valuable information berried in the posts.
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We have pinned some of them - but many times the issue comes up for a while and then disappears. If you get more than 2-3 pinned posts, they get in the way of the latest activity.
 
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BlackRockArt said:
If I were Steve, I would put a stickie in every board with the title:

"Before you ask a question, ask ChatGPT or Siri or Alexa."

:D

Oliver
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LOL

I've actually done some private testing using both Chat GPT and Bard to answer questions. The answers are often pretty good about locations, artistic concepts and such, but tend to miss on technical questions.

The bigger question is how we integrate those answers with a community discussion. I could easily see a Bot contributing to a discussion in a positive manner.
 
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We need to also keep in mind the different ways people learn. Some folk think nothing of sitting still to read 500-1,000 page manual and then moving on to another 1,000 page e-book. I personally would derive more satisfaction from setting myself alight. I, like many, can spend a few minutes skimming manual highlights but then must complete the learning process through "doing" and asking the odd question.
 
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I think some of the problems stem from the design of instruction manuals, not just cameras. Automobile manuals are the perfect example of the wrong way. Having to flick from page 27 (the first 26 were safety warnings) to page 502 and then back to 317 then to page 72 etc...
There needs to be a basic guide backed up by a more detailed section with the info grouped logically, not just spat out by independent teams.
 
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The info in photography manuals tends to be organized by menu section, or function, in my experience. Both make logical sense to me. If you want to learn about af, turn to pages xxx-xxx and read it. Any references there might lead you somewhere else, but the only way to make sure they cover everything with every option is to make them even longer, and even fewer people will read them.
 
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Cameras today are complicated devices with numerous combinations of settings. Just because there is an "automatic" function does not necessarily mean that it is appropriate for every situation which is the reason for alternate settings. I have noticed lately that there are many people buying professional or semi-professional cameras and expecting them to work like their phone - just point and shoot. I think many have the wrong camera for their needs.
 
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I'm happy to help answer questions from the simplest to the complex. Sure some things could be found with some research. A quick cursory search before posting a topic would always be appreciated to reduce forum clutter. But if one actually gets annoyed by these simple questions, I'd just skip such threads if you don't like helping those with the simple questions.

I've always been baffled by people complaining about topics and posts on a forum as if they are being forced to read every thread. Like people complaining about threads that compare two camera brands. No one is forcing you to read every thread. I probably read 5% of threads on here. If it isn't interesting to you or you are going to get frustrated by the topic than JUST SKIP IT.
 
Andy Miller Photo UK said:
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen

It is wonderful you have your new tools and are learning to use them ;);)

But I am sorry - how about this as an idea -- please check the manual before stating X or Y is broken or asking a very simple question -- all the answers you need are in the guidance -- AND there is very specific guidance about which buttons can be allocated what roles. Almost all can.

Obviously by Manual I mean all the documentation available from the Nikon Download Centre

You can also buy Steve Perry' Z8/Z9 wonderful guide or Thom Hogan's far more detailed bible. Hudson Henry has posted a very detailed explanation on YT which many of us have watched.

If you look at THIS THREAD you will discover guidance and be able to share experience with others who are getting to grips with the Z8.

NOW please also follow this guidance -- set your camera to Stills, SINGLE release mode and Manual Exposure mode -- then go through the settings setting up your camera AND try it out BEFORE exploring every other option -- each of which have CONSEQUENCES when used. Keep TONE MODE in SDR for now.

CONSEQUENCE NO 1 -- 30, 60, 120 fps ONLY provide JPG (or HEIF) - so obviously RAW file options are Grey'd out == many folk seem to head of to 120fps and get themselves stuck

CONSEQUENCE NO 2 -- if you want to shoot at the highest FPS or the highests resolution and fps format video YOU MUST HAVE a top performing CF Express TYPE B card -- Delkin Black, ProGrade Cobalt or similar -- NO XQD or SD card will support these for more than a very few moments if at all -- the data write speed/volume is simply too large/high for these older slower cards. Sure an older card can last 4-6 seconds and then the camera states it cannot work with the card -- this is because the USER chose to use the WRONG card -- If you want or need to shoot 8.3k 60p HQ N-RAW N-LOG 12-bit footage then you have to have a TOP CFE-B x2 card - A suitable 650GB card fills in 15.19 minutes in High Quality and 25.03 minutes in Normal Quality (most of us should only use Normal quality)

CONSEQUENCE NO 3 -- do not use the SD/UHS ii card as BACKUP unless you want to severely throttle the camera's performance -- no SD card can accept data at the speed at which the Z8 needs when writing long bursts or high data videos. If you "must" have backups - simply select and copy images from your CFE-B card to the SD card when you have finished shooting action or whatever you need to keep safe. BTW - you could use the same time to offload to a mobile device using snapbridge as well.

CONSEQUENCE NO 4 -- the camera will ONLY shoot at 20 fps when shutter speeds faster than 1/200th are used - at 1/200th and a little slower fps drops to 15fps. It drops to even lower rates at slower shutter speeds.

ONLY use Nikon EN-EL 15C, 15B or 15A batteries -- please no more whining -- you have spent $4k on the body an extra $50 for a battery is little for you to have to pay. Buy the 15C if you want the best performance. Battery performance in a mirrorless body is different to a DSLR -- the fact a Mirrorless camera has an EVF means it uses a little more power. You can use a Z8 turned on for between 1 and 1.5 hours. So turn the camera off when you are not using it. Adjust EVF/LCD brightness and change time to standby to reduce battery consumption.

Z lenses Lenses with VR - lock the VR units when they are turned off (or the camera goes into standby) and unlocks when power is on again -- this makes a tiny sound -- get used to it.

Please go to the linked thread and share your experiences and questions there.
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Here here.
 
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I'll not address the orginal post since, well Steve would probably ban me!

What I will say is the group has been so much different /better than some of the others. As the forum grows I believe there are some less experienced photographers here and that's fine in my opinion.

II've been one of those professional photographers for 40 + years and I learn here, even from some of the "dumb" questions.

If you don't want answer "dumb" questions please just move on. At the end of the day I really hope this this stays an inclusive and polite forum....
 
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I've been at this a long time and right from the beginning people have been saying RTFM! That doesn't help someone who has just decided to go for it and spends more money than they should at the moment and get a pro camera. They are in over their heads and need help!! Someone can either help or ignore the posts. I'm sure others have said the same, I didn't get a chance to read the posts.

All I can say to those having issues is ask questions here and other places, take a one-on-one workshop with someone, YouTube your issue, do whatever it takes to learn then help others. You really learn once you start helping people!

Hang in there!
 
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Seems to me the OP may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed the day they posted this.

Ask your questions folks and if it appears you’re trying to punch above your weight class, we’ll kindly point you towards the resources the OP suggested which are all excellent, including some of the aforementioned manuals.

As a training manager for an automaker, manuals are great, until they aren’t. While answers “can be” discovered in the literature they provide about their products, often times a question, no matter how simple or complex often leads to better understanding for both the learner and the person who answers questions.

The discourse in an open forum invites new or different answers that many people contribute to and the shared learning is super beneficial in my opinion.

Yes, sometimes the question leads to an quick answer by one or two folks and the discourse ends…

I simply just move on and have not lost anything but time.

I suspect the OP values their time and feels they may have been wasting it reading threads about things that they felt shouldn’t be necessary, in which case I simply offer the suggestion of it’s ok to focus on opening thread titles that interest you, even if you have to wade through a handful that don’t.

Simply my .02 cents from somebody who was a beginner photographer and learned a lot from folks asking questions on here, myself included.
 
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