NIKKOR 800 PF 6.3 Lens Filter???
- Thread starter Gio
- Start date
If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).
Oops
EricKlees
Well-known member
I believe it's like the Zemlin hood, there is a ring that attaches to the front of the lens and that is allows it to magnetically hold the filter in place. But at $500 why would you bother with that instead of just paying the $500 to Nikon for the drop in filter?
Since I never plan on using a filter of any kind with the Z800 not something I have to worry about
bills_pix
Member
I was out Sunday photographing speed boats and it was really sunny. The only way to get a nice blur while panning was to go with 1/80 and f13 and Lo 1.0 ISO. I got to wondering if a relatively inexpensive 46mm ND filter would work in the drop in holder. Has anyone tried that? Or has anyone tried a 46mm polarizer and setting the rotation the way you want and then dropping it in the holder? About 1/5 the price of the Nikon option and I realize I would have to remove it to change the degree of polarization. That would be fine for occasional use.
zemlin
Well-known member
I have used ND filters in the drop-in holder. Not on this lens, but it should be no different. I spent the $$$ for the drop in CPL. Pulling the filter to adjust would be a PITA. Also, not sure the thicker CPL would fit in the holder. KASE makes their version with magnetic filters - it includes a CPL and ND filters (but can't stack them) for less than the Nikon drop-in, but I haven't used them. I have the Kase in-body ND filters and they seem to work well - I use those when I want to have both CPL and ND.
bills_pix
Member
Thanks Karl. Given the outstanding optics of the 800 I am reluctant to put anything less than a higher end CPL in there. Might go to my local dealer to see what fits the supplied holder.
I have the specifically designed Nikon C-PL460 - that also fits into the 400 f2.8 and 600 S lenses.
If you have not used this type of slot-in before, it has a small wheel on the outside to rotate the pol when inside the lens.
The pol comes in a small pouch to take the supplied with the lens filter holder (without the external wheel) as this has to be removed to insert the Nikon pol. There is a zip pocket on the shoulder bag supplied with the 800 PF
The current UK price including 20% sales tax has recently gone up to around £395. I paid £300 in February when my 800 PF arrived.
Garfield
Well-known member
I never tried doing this but I asked B&H if it was possible to attach a third-party VND to the OEM filter cage and they said no, it wasn't, though I don't see any reason why you couldn't screw on a simple ND filter as long as the flange was narrow enough -- it's a very tight fit. But even if you could to this it would be a pain to pull and constantly adjust the filter in changing lighting conditions so I ended up purchasing the Kase VND system for the 800pf which works well, as it should for the price.
fcotterill
Well-known member
Like the CPL405, the newer - all polymer - CPL460, for the 800 PF, does not let you remove the CPL to screw in a different filter.
Nikon's internal CPL's have always been pricey, with different models of a very similar system of a geared rotating mechanism. They include the G type 52mm, and E type 40.6mm. Just to complicate things, the 800 f5.6E still uses the older 52mm design of rotating CPL (of the G type era).
Unlike the older F-Mount exotic telephotos, the clip-in cover that fills the filter slot of the 800 PF has no clear internal filter, which is integral to the optical formula of the respective F-mount exotics.
However, you can flip up the hinged frame cover to screw in a filter - labelled as ø 46mm (just visible below). This hinged cover clips into place.... a less obvious feature of the well designed 800 f6.3S PF that I've not seen mentioned in reviews etc of this lens.
However, Nikon states their 46mm NC is compatible with the 400 f2.8S TC, and this OEM internal holder seems to be the only way to use filters.
Nikon's internal CPL's have always been pricey, with different models of a very similar system of a geared rotating mechanism. They include the G type 52mm, and E type 40.6mm. Just to complicate things, the 800 f5.6E still uses the older 52mm design of rotating CPL (of the G type era).
Unlike the older F-Mount exotic telephotos, the clip-in cover that fills the filter slot of the 800 PF has no clear internal filter, which is integral to the optical formula of the respective F-mount exotics.
However, you can flip up the hinged frame cover to screw in a filter - labelled as ø 46mm (just visible below). This hinged cover clips into place.... a less obvious feature of the well designed 800 f6.3S PF that I've not seen mentioned in reviews etc of this lens.
However, Nikon states their 46mm NC is compatible with the 400 f2.8S TC, and this OEM internal holder seems to be the only way to use filters.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
Last edited:
bills_pix
Member
Thank you for the close up view of the holder for the 800mm 6.3. I didn't even notice the hinged door when I looked at it. It does seem deep enough to hold an ND filter...a CPL perhaps not.
I sent my question into Nikon support but have not heard back yet. So, I'll take my lens into the store where I purchased it and try a couple of 46mm filters and report back on what fit and what didn't fit.
I sent my question into Nikon support but have not heard back yet. So, I'll take my lens into the store where I purchased it and try a couple of 46mm filters and report back on what fit and what didn't fit.
zemlin
Well-known member
I have B&W ND filters that fit no problem. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1670014-REG/b_w_66_1101573_46mm_mrc_nano_master.html
I wish I could get additional holders so I didn't need to fiddle with screwing the filters in and out when I want to change. I was able to find them used for my older lenses, but they aren't listed separately as accessories.
I wish I could get additional holders so I didn't need to fiddle with screwing the filters in and out when I want to change. I was able to find them used for my older lenses, but they aren't listed separately as accessories.
Last edited:
ChrisM
Well-known member
As the 800PF is designed without a filter in place, does adding a (any type of) filter compromise performance?
Adding a filter at the rear (or in front ) of a lens can slightly)change the minimum focus and infinity focus.
The slot in polariser for the 200-400 is thicker than the supplied NC filter. Nikon caution the minimum and infinity focus is slightly affected using the slot in pol.
As the 800 mm slot in filters fit in front of the sensor and behind all the lens elements there is less risk of highlight reflections from the sensor than with a filter on the front of the lens.
ChrisM
Well-known member
I am familiar with the change of the focal plane, but wonder whether things like CA, contrast or bokeh might be affected?
Only optical test bench testing is likely to clarify this.
My expectation is that as a rear filter is parallel to the sensor and as light exiting the rear lens element is likely to be very close to parallel to the optical plane, any negative effects are likely to be close to negligible.
What I can confirm is using the appropriate Nikon pol for the 200-400 when I owned it, for the 180-400 and for the 800 PF does not seem to reduce image quality.
Using a pol usually improves contrast and colour saturation.
ChrisM
Well-known member
I think you are right.
The warnings against leaving out a filter in the filter slot vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer, especially when you approach them for a comment, but in general there is such a warning in the manual, but always without any further clarification.
Nikon is the first (with the Z-lenses) to specifically point the warning towards the slight change in focus, but refrains from any further comment. Traditionally, manufacturers of these long lenses with rear filter slots warn against (not further detailed) loss of optimal performance when a clear filter is not installed.
The Nikon wording in the downloadable instructions for the 800 PF is "Using a filter slightly increases the minimum focus distance and shifts the focus distance from that shown by the focus distance display."
Nikon use the same wording in the 400 mm F2 .8 S and 600 f4 S instructions.
I presume fitting a filter holder with no filter in over 100mm front element S lenses is a new departure for Nikon.
As to the quality of an answer to a question; in my experience a lot depends on who you ask - and in particular if they know the right answer
Nikon also say "The lens is designed for use without filters, and it can be used without a filter inserted under most conditions. In situations in which a filter is required, optional 46 mm screw on filter can be inserted in the slip in filter holder".
I was aware from F Mount generation lenses with a slot in filter holder (that came with a filter in place) that adding a polariser (thicker because it has two sheets of glass) similarly slightly changed focus distance.
My view is on the one hand filters are best not used without good reason as in some circumstances as they can degrade Image quality.
On the other hand IMO a well coated flat glass filter at the rear of a lens held parallel to the sensor is an optical combination where possible filter image degradation is as minimal as it can be.
I do not want to start a debate in this thread about the pluses and minuses of using filters - other than to say when I want a pol effect or neutral density effect I am prepared to use an appropriate filter to try to obtain the effect I want in the final image.
EDIT - Nikon also caution some 46 mm filters are too thick to fit within the space available in the 46 mm filter holder.
bills_pix
Member
Well I tried a 46mm ND and it fit just fine in the 800mm drop in holder. The problem came trying an inexpensive Kenko polarizing filter (lower quality then I would consider). It was very slightly too thick and the latch on the filter holder would barely close. It was a snug fit going into the lens.
My search continues for a 6.5mm or less high end CPL like a B+W or Heliopan. I've messaged both last week for thickness measurements and have heard nothing. BTW, the NiSi and Breakthrough Photography ones are too thick, i.e. over 6.5mm including the threads.
My search continues for a 6.5mm or less high end CPL like a B+W or Heliopan. I've messaged both last week for thickness measurements and have heard nothing. BTW, the NiSi and Breakthrough Photography ones are too thick, i.e. over 6.5mm including the threads.
Breah through said they have it on their radar but other projects already under way and no ETA.
bills_pix
Member
Yes, they told me to sign up for the Leica filter announcements but no ETA.
The disadvantage of a screw in pol combined with the supplied holder is the pol cannot be rotated without removing the holder from the lens.
The Nikon rotating pol and holder cost no more than about 3 times the price of a good 46mm pol.
I paid £300 for the Nikon including 20% sales tax.
The one Break Through is planning on developing is a holder with rotating cpl. They have the for other lens brands already. I am in no rush so I can wait.
bills_pix
Member
The Canadian equivalent price with tax is £440. I'd rather put the difference into a third battery. If all I am doing is horizontal panning shots then "set and forget" would be fine on the polarizer. I admit the filter would be for a fairly limited situation so I may just wait to see what Breakthrough comes up with. I appreciate all the discussion and comments.
Douglas L
Member
Just want to give this tread a bump... I received my 800mm PF 2 weeks ago and plan to use it to shoot birds and airplanes which include propeller planes. I prefer to use an ND filter to reduce the light so I can shoot at 1/100 second without using f16 or even f18. I just bought a screw-on 46mm B+W 2-stop ND filter to use in the slip-in filter holder near the rear of the lens. It fits.
I want to buy an extra Nikon slip-in filter holder to permanently keep the ND filter in, so I won't need to screw the ND filter into the holder when it's needed and and unscrew it when it is no longer needed. Airshows are fast paced so I don't have time to do that. That way, when the ND filter is needed, I can just put that holder with the ND filter in the lens, when I no long need to use the ND filter, I will just remove the holder with the ND from the lens and put the holder without filter back in the lens.
I emailed Nikon a couple times, here is what they said: "We do not seem to have any slip-in filter holders available for this model of lens, you may need to check with our authorized dealers to see if they may have something available from a third party."
I find it hard to believe Nikon doesn't have this slip-in filter holder available. It's very flimsy and plasticky, unlike the metal folder that comes with the more $$$$ big primes. What if I break it? Where can I buy one then? I have been googling a bunch on this subject and was only able to find a third party holder with a turnable dial for CPL that's sold for $500 with a couple 46mm filters. I don't need a holder with a turnable dial nor do I have use of the filters that come with the kit, I just want to buy a plain simple holder exactly like the one the comes with the lens.