Nikon 800PF Review For Wildlife Photographers (Official Discussion Thread)

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Thanks :) :)
A most interesting summary of what was obviously a great experience (I visited Vancouver Island in mid 1990s but biodiversity science, no photography sadly).

The prominence of 800mm is interesting, particularly considering the previous recommendations by Brad Hill, who had discounted the value of this focal length along the Pacific NW coasts... But he's reversed his review - and he's a big fan now!

Comparisons: 800mm f5.6E FL and 800mm f6.3S PF Nikkors

Here follow a selection of images taken over the past several months with both lenses, with/without their respective teleconverters. I have built up a sizeable database since mid 2022, when time and conditions permitted. I took all these primarily with the aim of trying to define the...
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BillW said:
I did a wildlife trip to Barkley Sound on Vancouver Island earlier this month. Used the Z 800 mm PF and Z 100-400 mm lenses for wildlife on a Z9 and Z7II. I also had a 500 mm PF and F and Z 1.4x TCs along, although I did not end up using them.

This was my first time traveling with the 800 mm PF. I carried the 800 mm PF in a Mindshift Backlight 36L (along with the two Z bodies, the 500 mm PF, the TCs, and a Z 24-120 lens). It fit in the overhead bin on the Air Canada Dash 8 two-engine turbo prop flight from Vancouver to Nanaimo. Hoped that this would be the case and was pleased by the result. Air Canada does not weigh carryons, at least on flights that I have been on, so that was not an issue. No issues — size or weight — on a regular jet (Delta) from Minneapolis to Vancouver.

Photography was from an ocean-going motorized sail boat and two zodiacs. We photographed birds (bald eagles; three types of cormorants; common, red-breasted and hooded mergansers; common loons; surf scoters; various gulls; Barrow’s and common golden-eyes; murres; pigeon guillemots; marbled murrelets; ….) and marine mammals (humpback whales, grey whales, sea lions (Stellar and California), harbor seals, and sea otters). All handheld. The 800 mm PF worked well in the zodiac. I had the Z 100-400 on a second body. The first day I had the 800 mm PF on the Z7II and the Z 100-400 mm on my Z9. But after that I switched to using the 800 mm on my Z9. Wish I had had two Z9s.

The Z 800 mm PF ended up as my most used lens, even for eagles, sea lions and seals. In some cases the marine mammals were close and I shifted to the Z 100-400 mm lens. Given waves, swell and wind, you tend to use higher shutter speeds in a zodiac. And when you have waves and a swell, it can make framing a shot with the 800 mm PF (or for that matter, other telephotos) difficult.

I was pretty sure that I would like the 800 mm focal length, as I tended to use my 500 mm PF more often than not with an F mount TC — usually the 1.4x TCIII, but also the 1.7x TCII and 2x TCIII.

I’ve used the Z 800 mm PF with the Z 1.4x TC for winter eagle photography along the Mississippi. Found it worked well. Plan to test the Z 800 mm with the Z 2x TC in the next few weeks at a nearby great blue heron rookery where there are limits to how close you can get. (Have previously used the 500 mm PF there with a TC.)

Not the lens for everyone or for every situation. But I am glad I have it.

[Fixed a typo.]
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Interesting how perception vs reality can change. First Brad then this from Thom Hogan who apparently dissed the 800pf but later came around with these comments in his review: “ As I noted up front, I thought long and hard about the 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S when it came out, and I also debated its viability with a number of pros. … Personally, I prefer a closer-in window of opportunity, which is why I like a closer focusing 400mm lens more and why I initially wasn’t going to acquire and use the 800mm lens being reviewed. … What I can say is that while I decided to pass on purchasing the 800mm initially, I’m mostly glad I changed my mind, even though it isn’t a lens that’s getting as much use as my other long lenses.” Thus these guys do make a case that the 800 PF isn’t just a novelty.
 
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DsD said:
Interesting how perception vs reality can change. First Brad then this from Thom Hogan who apparently dissed the 800pf but later came around with these comments in his review: “ As I noted up front, I thought long and hard about the 800mm f/6.3 PF VR S when it came out, and I also debated its viability with a number of pros. … Personally, I prefer a closer-in window of opportunity, which is why I like a closer focusing 400mm lens more and why I initially wasn’t going to acquire and use the 800mm lens being reviewed. … What I can say is that while I decided to pass on purchasing the 800mm initially, I’m mostly glad I changed my mind, even though it isn’t a lens that’s getting as much use as my other long lenses.” Thus these guys do make a case that the 800 PF isn’t just a novelty.
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I would find it hard to imagine why anyone at all would diss the Nikon 800PF, it is an utterly brilliant lens for its unique combination of size, weight, focal length, price and IQ. Perhaps thé single most innovative super telelens of the decade, the 500PF arguably taking the crown in the previous decade.
But it also brings an 800mm lens within reach of a substantial number of bird photographers that had no access to such a lens before the 800PF, or that would never have suffered the price, size and weight of the previous (F mount) version.
So inevitably there are those that are going to find out that it is not their ideal lens.
I used a Pentax DA560mm f5.6 for a few years, and it worked surprisingly well IQ wise with a 1.4TC, making it a 784mm f8 lens. I also used a lens like the Sigma 500/4 with a 1.4TC, making it a 700mm f5.6 lens. I greatly preferred 700mm over 784mm, and like a good 600mm prime even better, with the option to put on a 1.4TC at times.
It's all down to preference and what works for you. The high mp Sony A1 and Nikon Z9 allow for quite a bit of cropping when fitted with a high quality prime lens, and inherent to that, is that DOF is increased. You have to like to full the frame more with an 800mm lens even if the higher number of pixels will give you better IQ. I routinely now stop down the 600/4 unless doing BIF or unless subjects are distant and close to their backgrounds, where f4 is a really great option to get separation. Otherwise, too much separation, too shallow a depth of field doesn't work for me.

Anyway, the Z800mm is a stellar lens without question, all you have to do is to truly like the focal length and the shallow DOF, and you are set.
 
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ricardo00 said:
I used to primarily shoot a D500 and 500mm PF (which was fantastic). So going to the 800mm on the Z9 is not that big a deal...
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I think this is one reason that the lens has been so well received. Anyone who was previously shooting D500/500PF(or any cropped sensor/500mm lens) and now Z9/800PF is working with almost the same field of view at the same distances while putting twice as many pixels on target and getting more pleasing BG due to flatter/narrower DOF.

On the other hand it seems like there are a lot of folks who bought this lens somewhat out of frustration rather than waiting for the fabled 200-600 or who couldn't/didn't want to shell out for the 600TC. And now wish they'd waited. I'm betting a year down the road there will be a lively used market for this lens.
 
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fcotterill said:
Thanks :) :)
A most interesting summary of what was obviously a great experience (I visited Vancouver Island in mid 1990s but biodiversity science, no photography sadly).

The prominence of 800mm is interesting, particularly considering the previous recommendations by Brad Hill, who had discounted the value of this focal length along the Pacific NW coasts... But he's reversed his review - and he's a big fan now!

Comparisons: 800mm f5.6E FL and 800mm f6.3S PF Nikkors

Here follow a selection of images taken over the past several months with both lenses, with/without their respective teleconverters. I have built up a sizeable database since mid 2022, when time and conditions permitted. I took all these primarily with the aim of trying to define the...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
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Thanks. Brad Hill was the leader of the trip. He used his Z 800 mm PF, Z 400 mm f2.8 TC, Z 100-400 mm, and Z 24-120 mm lenses on two Z9s. Most of the time he had the Z 800 mm PF on one Z9 and the Z 400 mm f2.8 TC on the other Z9. He switched to the Z 24-120 at times for scenic shots (it is a beautiful place) and the Z 100-400 when marine mammals were close. Yes, I think it is fair to say that Brad likes the Z 800 mm PF.
 
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In the interview, a year ago, with the engineers who designed the 800 PF, and again this year, Nikon has emphasized:
"Telephoto demand was conventionally for high quality. At the same time, there was a clear segment who voiced that they would like to have more compact lenses, even if they had to sacrifice a little bit of the f-stop range (especially with the improvement of camera high-sensitivity performance), and at the same time, be more affordable. The 500mm F5.6 PF for F-mount was this type of lens and was well-received. Based on feedback and demand, we built the 800mm F6.3 and the 400mm F4.5 for the Z-mount.
....
What's the most challenging part of designing these compact telephoto lenses? Are there any tradeoffs you had to make?
"We didn't want to sacrifice the lens's optical performance when aiming for a more compact size. To do that, we had to consider the design of the lenses very closely, optimizing the positioning of the lenses and the selection of materials to be used.

Also, through efforts such as considering ways to make the lenses thinner during the manufacturing process, as well as adopting lightweight materials such as magnesium and molded plastic for mechanical parts, contributed to making the products lighter. Additionally, by utilizing a simulation for structural strength, we were able to optimize the thickness and shape of parts, resulting in lightness."

An accurate summation of the key features, which underpin the success of Nikon's more compact, lighter Prosumer telephoto lenses.
www.dpreview.com

CP+ 2023: Nikon interview - 'Everybody can become a content creator'

After the recent CP+ expo in Japan, we traveled to Nikon headquarters in Tokyo to learn more about the design process for its Z9 flagship camera, how its transition to mirrorless is progressing, and why video is vital to Nikon's future.
www.dpreview.com www.dpreview.com
 
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fcotterill said:

NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S Firmware​

Nikon has just released this Firmware patch

Changes from Firmware Version 1.10 to 1.11
  • • Fixed an issue in which vibration reduction would sometimes interfere with vignetting.

Nikon | Download center | NIKKOR Z 800mm f/6.3 VR S Firmware

downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com
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I am not affected or seeing any degradation from vignetting. I dun think I will update it. Hope the patch will not reduce or cap the vr in favor of the vignetting issue. The vr on this lense is phenomenal.
 
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The only way I can envisage is that slight lateral shifts in the mechanical VR unit interfere with vignetting at particular aperture(s), possibly at the precise point when the blades close up. This is only a hypothesis
 
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Man, this lens just sings. Easily the sharpest, clearest that I've used to date. Went out this morning, and had to choose which lens to take b/w it and the 400 4.5 + 1.4TC. While the 400 is loads lighter and more enjoyable to take on walks, its IQ can't compare to the 800. Switch over to a more cluttered environment and closer-in shooting, and the 400 is the weapon of choice, as the 800's AF is more cumbersome. There's tradeoffs to everything.
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MatthewK said:
Man, this lens just sings. Easily the sharpest, clearest that I've used to date. Went out this morning, and had to choose which lens to take b/w it and the 400 4.5 + 1.4TC. While the 400 is loads lighter and more enjoyable to take on walks, its IQ can't compare to the 800. Switch over to a more cluttered environment and closer-in shooting, and the 400 is the weapon of choice, as the 800's AF is more cumbersome. There's tradeoffs to everything.
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I thought you got rid of that thing :rolleyes:
 
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NorthernFocus said:
I thought you got rid of that thing :rolleyes:
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Not as yet…I decided to start not obsessing as much, and start shooting more. Going to wait and see how it does with Spring warblers this month and next.

Edit: good glass is good glass, so it’d be a bad move to get rid of the lens because of dodgy MILC AF (loves to grab background, no cross-type style AF points, etc). I’ll hold onto the lens, and upgrade camera as AF evolves.
 
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cchuck said:
Good work on the Phoebe! Nice to see the eye sharp, and also be able to see into it.
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Thank you! It was a perfectly lit day, nice and soft lighting, and the Phoebe was actually being cooperative enough to let me land a bunch of shots. Usually they’re super skittish, and I don’t have good luck with them.
 
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Bluebird flight shots were always a struggle with DSLR's. Not so with the Z9 and 800 combo.......these and more keepers in about a half hour of shooting.

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