Nikon Z9 + 4.1 Firmware: The New King Of Birding?

[Steve]

Fascinating! Based on your earlier recommendations, as well as my field work, I’ve been using the Wide+3D-handoff method, but I often have gotten tripped-up and frustrated with the exact situation you’re mentioning, where SD drops just as I’m switching from wide to 3D, and the 3D target isn’t on the subject so then the focus shoots to whatever is under the 3D target, which is often very different. Sometimes this even seems to happen without apparently losing the SD, but maybe it loses it so briefly I don’t/can’t actually see the drop.

It sounds like Auto AF can mostly solve, or at least ameliorate this issue. I haven’t used Auto AF much because when I first tried it out (first version of Z9 firmware), it wasn’t great. If I want something like AutoAF, I just use my custom Wide that is the largest size you can make.

So I just tried it out on my cats and a few other subjects here in the house. It does seem to work pretty well, though it seems that AutoAF won’t follow across the entire frame. It seems to stop a bit short of the edges. Probably not a huge deal, though sometimes with some subjects the eye/head/etc might be close to the side and with just a little bit of movement might accidentally go into that apparent no-go zone. In my simple tests here, AutoAF picked it back up pretty quickly once it was back toward the center, though I’m not sure how well that works in a more realistic/dynamic situation. Just curious if you’ve found this to be much, if any, issue. I’m also curious how different it is from a max-sized-custom-Wide.

Certainly something I’m interested in trying.

I've not found it to be an issue at all. In fact, I find Auto pretty much seems to follow my targets across the viewfinder pretty well. Again, though, you hav veto pick your situation. There are still plenty of things that can trip up Auto. I still use both, it's just now I'm using Auto as my starting point. And it's all from the firmware. I too found Auto didnt' work well with earlier versions of the firmware. As of version 4, I was starting to play with it more and more and 4.1 really cemented it in - at least for birds. For mammals, I'm still pretty like to use Wide + 3D or just 3D.

 

[fcotterill]

The Banks work better, in fact really well, to switch between a whole bunch of settings instantly eg between Action to Macro/Landscape situations, for which one tends to use a bunch of very different settings - buried in different Menus. The new Zed MILCs make the Banks use simpler in some ways, compared to D850, D5, D6 as we can copy between banks - so as Steve describes keeping B and C as backups (if needed)

If you use shooting banks, how do you use them?

I am hoping to set up shooting banks on my Z9 but wonder what is the best way? I was thinking A as general purpose B as action (high iso, high shutter speed) C as animal "portrait" (low to moderate iso, low to moder shutter speed) D as slow speed pan blur (low iso, low shutter speed) As I...

bcgforums.com

 

[fcotterill]

Historically - the pre Z9 era - Auto AF mode has worked very well for wildlife subjects, but under restricted conditions. Otherwise, the focus can be relied upon to grab what ever is in front of the subject (or the background, especially on small subjects in the frame). This has been the case since it was introduced in the DSLRs (AutoAF mode has been around since the D3, circa 2007). For example, with the D850, D5, D500, AutoAF often works very well for BIF in open skies, or in some sports scenes.

It finally dawned on me that all the Nikon Group AF modes operate as corralled versions of AutoAF. These modes all use Closest Focus Priority (CFP). However with the Z9, active Subject Recognition overrides the CFP algorithm, which often grabs the subject reliably in the case of AutoAF. This unless S-R is discombobulated by a tricky subject and/or too much vegetation or other clutter. As discussed and shown, the updates improving the Deep-Learning in the Z9 SR have reduced this complication.

In summary, to return to the Z9 (and Z8) one has the power to put to work a hierarchy of AF modes that combine the best of CFP and SR. Using a set of 3 or even more of these modes, you can corral the search area across - or within - the scene to grab tricky subjects. There's the choice between the trio of AutoAF > Wide > Small, or / with added flexibility: AutoAF, C1 and C2 customizable from 19*11 > 1*1.

also see dicusssion of these modes & challenges in Steve's previous thread

 

[Geoff_G]

The Banks work better, in fact really well, to switch between a whole bunch of settings instantly eg between Action to Macro/Landscape situations, for which one tends to use a bunch of very different settings - buried in different Menus. The new Zed MILCs make the Banks use simpler in some ways, compared to D850, D5, D6 as we can copy between banks - so as Steve describes keeping B and C as backups (if needed)

If you use shooting banks, how do you use them?

I am hoping to set up shooting banks on my Z9 but wonder what is the best way? I was thinking A as general purpose B as action (high iso, high shutter speed) C as animal "portrait" (low to moderate iso, low to moder shutter speed) D as slow speed pan blur (low iso, low shutter speed) As I...

bcgforums.com

Yep, I use the banks to make a myriad of changes between my 'Action' and 'Stills' banks and I do not use extended shooting banks. I just revisit my exposure settings when switching between banks. This has worked for me since the beginning but Nikon is missing the mark and doesn't seem interested in making banks more useful.

 

[Anjin San]

The banks on the Z9 are stupid..... they really just need to put "users" onto the high end cameras. Any custom config available instantly.

Actually…I agree with you. Make them remember the additional number of things that banks do and give us 4 of them. While I've learned to live with the banks in the 8/9 over the user modes in my DX DSLRs and Z7II…the idea that I could select U1 for action, adjust as needed for a particular situation but then the next time I powered the body off/on or switched to U1 again I knew exactly what the settings would be was overall better IMO. Frankly…I don't see how it would be so hard to have a setting for each bank that remembered or didn't remember changes on a per bank basis…in that case switching banks or power cycling would return to the beginning set of settings if one wanted it that way. It's still quicker to change U modes than change banks though…because in most cases you want to change both shooting and custom settings banks at the same time and that's longer to complete. Even after going on 2 years with the banks in the Z9 I still like the U modes better.

 

[EricBowles]

Historically - the pre Z9 era - Auto AF mode has worked very well for wildlife subjects, but under restricted conditions. Otherwise, the focus can be relied upon to grab what ever is in front of the subject (or the background, especially on small subjects in the frame). This has been the case since it was introduced in the DSLRs (AutoAF mode has been around since the D3, circa 2007). For example, with the D850, D5, D500, AutoAF often works very well for BIF in open skies, or in some sports scenes.

It finally dawned on me that all the Nikon Group AF modes operate as corralled versions of AutoAF. These modes all use Closest Focus Priority (CFP). However with the Z9, active Subject Recognition overrides the CFP algorithm, which often grabs the subject reliably in the case of AutoAF. This unless S-R is discombobulated by a tricky subject and/or too much vegetation or other clutter. As discussed and shown, the updates improving the Deep-Learning in the Z9 SR have reduced this complication.

In summary, to return to the Z9 (and Z8) one has the power to put to work a hierarchy of AF modes that combine the best of CFP and SR. Using a set of 3 or even more of these modes, you can corral the search area across - or within - the scene to grab tricky subjects. There's the choice between the trio of AutoAF > Wide > Small, or / with added flexibility: AutoAF, C1 and C2 customizable from 19*11 > 1*1.

also see dicusssion of these modes & challenges in Steve's previous thread

I've run into too many situations recently where leaving AF to Area mode created problems. Group photos where one person is the "guest of honor" and must be in focus, or foxhunting where there is a choice of focus on a person, an animal, or neither. I just finished using Topaz to recover an image where focus was perfect on the horse - instead of the rider. The previous frame had focus correctly on the person but head position of the person was not as good.

 

[EricKlees]

That makes sense - if there are a bunch of eyes to choose from Auto will choose for you based on the programing whereas Wide allows you to limit what the AF system is looking at.

I have observed this as well.

That's pretty significant I would say, definitely something to explore. Thank you for doing so much investigating on these new features.

I used to have my FN1 button set to single point. I have some switched that to my SUV selector. Since for me, single point is rarely used and even then only bit slow, still or perched animals i can be very delicate with ordering the sub selector straight down, not accidentally moving the focus points. I have 3D set to DISP button and AF ON had my Auto Area AF mode (as well as the shutter).

This lets me have all my AF modes available to my thumb and my front FN buttons set for rifles study as FN1 is RSF (hold), FN2 is silent and FN3 is switch FX/DX

 

[EricKlees]

I've not found it to be an issue at all. In fact, I find Auto pretty much seems to follow my targets across the viewfinder pretty well. Again, though, you hav veto pick your situation. There are still plenty of things that can trip up Auto. I still use both, it's just now I'm using Auto as my starting point. And it's all from the firmware. I too found Auto didnt' work well with earlier versions of the firmware. As of version 4, I was starting to play with it more and more and 4.1 really cemented it in - at least for birds. For mammals, I'm still pretty like to use Wide + 3D or just 3D.

I agree Steve. I've been using the auto area AF mode exclusively with Bird SD since the day after FW 4.10 was released.

It's far more intelligent in recognizing birds even with the white passive at boxes. It's the only AF mode needed even for acquisition. I'm able to acquire tree swallows 35 yards out of so against busy tree and browm reeds backgrounds with really no issues ava takes then perfectly fine.

I've now put Auto Area AF mode on both my shutter and AF ON back button as i like it was my default AF mode so I'll get the white passive AF boxes with arrows so if i have more then 1 bird in the frame i can use the D-Pad to select which i want before hitting AF ON. Such as a Drake and a hen duck, i can select the frame then start AF and track

 

[Matt N]

I've tried both the Z8 and Z9 several times and one of my struggles was having to use 3 fingers/buttons to take a picture. For example, my understanding is that if you use BBAF and have it set up following Steve's guide, you would use the back AF button for something like a Wide zone, then hand of to 3D tracking using one of the front buttons, then take the picture using the shutter. I've also rented the A1 and with that camera, you use the back AF button and tracking is built-in, so it's only 2 buttons to take a picture. I really want to like Nikon because I think their lenses are amazing and I love the image quality on the cameras, but I've had a big hand surgery in the past and using 3 buttons is significantly more difficult for me than using 2. I've also tried using shutter focus, but I think I prefer the benefits of BBAF.

Does the new 4.10 firmware alleviate the need for the 3D tracking handoff on another button? Or was I doing something wrong?

 

[Jerry Watson]

Once you hand off you can release the AF button.

 

[Matt N]

Once you hand off you can release the AF button.

Yes, but there is a brief moment when you have to have a finger on both the AF button and another button for 3D before you release the AF button, right? That's where my dexterity issues occur. I was wondering if that wasn't necessary anymore, but it sounds like it may still be.

 

[Jerry Watson]

Yes, but there is a brief moment when you have to have a finger on both the AF button and another button for 3D before you release the AF button, right? That's where my dexterity issues occur. I was wondering if that wasn't necessary anymore, but it sounds like it may still be.

Yes that has not changed.

 

[Steve]

I've tried both the Z8 and Z9 several times and one of my struggles was having to use 3 fingers/buttons to take a picture. For example, my understanding is that if you use BBAF and have it set up following Steve's guide, you would use the back AF button for something like a Wide zone, then hand of to 3D tracking using one of the front buttons, then take the picture using the shutter. I've also rented the A1 and with that camera, you use the back AF button and tracking is built-in, so it's only 2 buttons to take a picture. I really want to like Nikon because I think their lenses are amazing and I love the image quality on the cameras, but I've had a big hand surgery in the past and using 3 buttons is significantly more difficult for me than using 2. I've also tried using shutter focus, but I think I prefer the benefits of BBAF.

Does the new 4.10 firmware alleviate the need for the 3D tracking handoff on another button? Or was I doing something wrong?

I find that Auto is working better now. Try that as your default instead of wide - to 3D. And I agree 100000% about the Sony cameras, much better implementation since every area can work with or without tracking. I have my AF-On button set to go into tracking mode for my current AF area and my AE-L button set for normal AF for the current area (I tend to use tracking a bit more than normal). All I have to do is slide my thumb to the one I want.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Nikon do something similar with 3D. For example you would have a Wide + 3D mode where you can lock on with Wide and, once the camera is locked, it switches to 3D automatically (basically, what Sony does).

 

[Matt N]

I find that Auto is working better now. Try that as your default instead of wide - to 3D. And I agree 100000% about the Sony cameras, much better implementation since every area can work with or without tracking. I have my AF-On button set to go into tracking mode for my current AF area and my AE-L button set for normal AF for the current area (I tend to use tracking a bit more than normal). All I have to do is slide my thumb to the one I want.

Ideally, it would be nice to see Nikon do something similar with 3D. For example you would have a Wide + 3D mode where you can lock on with Wide and, once the camera is locked, it switches to 3D automatically (basically, what Sony does).

Yeah, I've followed your guides for both cameras (great guides BTW!). The fact that Sony works that way is far better for my hand limitations. I'm just having an internal delima because I rented the Nikon 800 PF and love that lens. In order to get something with similar aperature on Sony I would need to use the 600 F4 + 1.4x, which is a little bigger/heavier/expensive. I've rented that as well. It's a personal problem for me for sure.

 

[nautiboy]

Yeah, I've followed your guides for both cameras (great guides BTW!). The fact that Sony works that way is far better for my hand limitations. I'm just having an internal delima because I rented the Nikon 800 PF and love that lens. In order to get something with similar aperature on Sony I would need to use the 600 F4 + 1.4x, which is a little bigger/heavier/expensive. I've rented that as well. It's a personal problem for me for sure.

One possibility you might try is doing the reverse with Wide+3D or Wide+AF (unless my recollection of Steve’s suggestion is reversed). What I do is I have Wide on my F1 button and I have 3D (now, based on Steve’s results I have it on AutoAF) as the base mode. Normally I then typically use the F1 button for initial acquisition, then release - at which point 3D (or AutoAF) takes over, and is already tracking, and then I hit the AF button to focus. Now with AutoAF I’ve been trying initial acquisition just with AF button (with AutoAF) but I still find that occasionally I need to use Wide to get the initial acquisition, so I hit F1 to get that acquisition (or F2, which I have set to Wide-C1 which is a 1x1). In my mind it’s kind of a progression - AF button has the widest area (AutoAF or 3D) and can follow all over the frame, F1 is a bit more constrained (WideL) and F2 is the most constrained (Wide-C1 1x1). Start with the thumb, no acquisition go to middle finger, no acquisition go to ring finger. Once acquired, go back to thumb because thumb+shutter is the strongest/most-comfortable combo and can follow all over frame.

 

[Jerry Watson]

Yeah, I've followed your guides for both cameras (great guides BTW!). The fact that Sony works that way is far better for my hand limitations. I'm just having an internal delima because I rented the Nikon 800 PF and love that lens. In order to get something with similar aperature on Sony I would need to use the 600 F4 + 1.4x, which is a little bigger/heavier/expensive. I've rented that as well. It's a personal problem for me for sure.

You can assign a button on the 800PF to do one of the functions. That frees up the other fingers on the shooting hand.

 

[tjphxaz]

Is there a new king for subject detection with birds?

Over the last few weeks, I've been putting the Z9 with firmware 4.1 to the test - and I've been doing it alongside the Sony a1.

In this video, we'll talk about how the Z9 (firmware 4.1) compares to the a1 when it comes to bird detection - and which camera has the edge. In addition, we'll discuss if Bird mode works well enough with mammals that you can forget Animal mode altogether. As a bonus, I'll even show you how to set your camera to toggle between Animal and Bird mode!

And, of course, I'll pass on lots of advice along the way!

This one is jam-packed! Check it out!

Thanks for yet another strong video Steve. What is your go to AF Area Mode for BIF? Animals? I know the rule generally has been the smallest AF Area that you can use to get focus but it would seem to me with Subject Detect capability that a larger area such as Wide S,Wide L or event Auto would be best for action or even static subjects.

 

[Cameron T]

Thanks for yet another strong video Steve. What is your go to AF Area Mode for BIF? Animals? I know the rule generally has been the smallest AF Area that you can use to get focus but it would seem to me with Subject Detect capability that a larger area such as Wide S,Wide L or event Auto would be best for action or even static subjects.

He's noted it it in this topic (and elswhere), auto area seems to be the way to go for birds at least as it's very strong using the Bird AF mode. Wide areas are still good, or if you want to pick a specific subject, but for an isolated one auto area has become more usable.

 

[Steve]

Thanks for yet another strong video Steve. What is your go to AF Area Mode for BIF? Animals? I know the rule generally has been the smallest AF Area that you can use to get focus but it would seem to me with Subject Detect capability that a larger area such as Wide S,Wide L or event Auto would be best for action or even static subjects.

Yup, what Camron said in the post above.

 

[Matt N]

You can assign a button on the 800PF to do one of the functions. That frees up the other fingers on the shooting hand.

Interesting...I had not considered that. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[tjphxaz]

Yup, what Camron said in the post above.

Sorry, I will try not to be so lazy and read the full thread before replying. I don’t follow every day. Usually wait for the weekend to review your weekly highlights email (which I appreciate you sending out).

 

[Steve]

Sorry, I will try not to be so lazy and read the full thread before replying. I don’t follow every day. Usually wait for the weekend to review your weekly highlights email (which I appreciate you sending out).

No worries at all - it's gotten to be a lengthy thread.

 

[Dinusaur]

Yes, it appears to be so - the King of Birding, definitely for the challenging situation I put it through the other day in a local park. I was tracking a juvenile Red-tailed Hawk as it took off from ground after consuming a vole that it caught minutes earlier. As it was flying in an arc around me it went behind shrubs and bushes for 10 frames before reappearing in the clearance - amazingly all behind-the-shrub frames remained sharp. Here are some examples of cropped images from the sequence. The first frame is just before the bird went behind and the last one is when it emerged from behind. A few in between shows how good the tracking was. These were taken with 400mmTC set at 400mm. The file name contains the frame numbers.

 

[JoelKlein]

Wow!
And that was Bird, auto area?
Block shot was set to?

 

[EricKlees]

Wow!
And that was Bird, auto area?
Block shot was set to?

I saw the same thing the day after installing the FW. Auto Area, Bird, blocked shot set to 5 and subject motion set to Steady at all times. I don't use anything else other than Auto Area AF mode. 3D very rare for birds through brush and branches but Auto Area get that most of the time too.