Nikon Z9/8 Hybrid Handover Question

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To take a picture you need 3 things:
AF on the scene
Tell the camera which AF mode
Fully Press the shutter.

This could be accomplished using 1 finger. But you must set up which AF mode you want. Single, small, large, auto, 3D, etc.

If you want to change the type of AF, you have to dig in the menus, i-menus or press the left side button while rotating the dial.

All of the above your changing/configuring the main global AF mode. When you half press the shutter, or use BBF or any other button that you program to accomplish AF-ON - which tells the camera to focus, it will use the global set focus mode, then the last step is to fully press the shutter to take a picture. That’s it! This can be accomplished with only ONE finger.

Now, lets say you want a different AF type while shooting and you want to change it instantly, you can’t wait to mess around changing the global AF mode, then you have to use Two fingers.

The two finger method.
The camera allow for a secondary AF mode which would override and take place instead of the global AF mode set in the menus.

When you half press the shutter to focus = AF-ON - You can set many buttons to AF-ON, they all do the same thing, focus with the global set focus, and you take pictures, but you want to instantly change the focus type ‘away’ from global set focus to any other focus type you wish, you will have to program a button that does just that, change global focus to another type of focus you programmed that button to do.
Now you must use TWO FINGERS, while holding the first AF-ON button, you press the SECOND button, then let go of the first button, and magic happens! The camera now instantly changes the AF mode set by the second button overriding the global set focus type and ‘Handing it over’ to the second button!
But this is a one way street only!
As long you’re pressing the second button, if you press your main AF-ON button, it will be ignored! The second button takes full priority control of the focus type you assigned to it.

To go back to global focus, you must first stop pressing the second button! Then you can press the main AF-ON again. I write ‘again’, because the camera would start focusing from scratch. It won’t remember anything from before. If its a bird far away, it would hunt for the bird all over again.
Vs. when you choose the second button, the camera won’t begin the focus run, and rather remember where that bird is and continue with the second AF type.

To sum it up.
The camera has a global focus, and a secondary override focus. AF area + AF ON
You can have many different buttons set to different overrides and hand over from the global to the override you choose.
But you can’t hand it back to global, (hand it over means the camera won’t begin the focus run again)
And you can’t hand-over from one override to another override. If you do, the camera would begin focusing again.

The 3 finger method would allow you to jump around from global focus, to override focus , and from one override to another override in a hand-it-over and dance around with focus modes. And this requires 3 fingers!

One finger: AF-ON telling the camera to focus. Which focus type?
Second finger: what ever you set to AF- area only. Dance around between them, overrides would still have priority over the global set AF type, but the camera won’t begin focusing again as long as you don’t let go of the AF-ON button.

Third finger, on the fully pressed shutter to take pictures. Its a camera! Designed to save memories 😀

For your 1 finger method remember as per Steve's setup you can configure a different button to switch your global AF mode. Steve uses the REC button. This duplicates the function of that (impossible to reach when hand-holding a larger lens) dedicated AF button near the lens release button. Therefore you don't have to menu dive or use that hard to reach front left button.

I found using the REC button for this worked well. I also switched the AF dials so that the rear dial changed the AF mode when REC was pushed (default is the front dial). The front dial then did the AF-S/AF-C switch which I never use and disabled AF-S anyways. Then I could use index finger to push down REC and thumb to scroll through the global AF modes. Alternatively you can use the press and release setting so you press REC, release, and then use the default front wheel to change the AF mode. Remembering to half-press shutter afterwards to cancel the push and release function.
 
The simple summary:

There appears to be a functional hierarchy, not a button hierarchy: "base" AF area > (assigned) AF area > AF area+AF-ON. "base" AF area being the lowest priority.

Further explanation:

There is a base/global AF mode/area selection selected either the the AF mode button on left front of the camera or via the menu. This is the AF mode/area that activates if you use shutter button activation. It can also be activated with the AF-ON button(BBF) or a lens Fn button if programmed to do so by assigning the "AF-ON" command. So let's call that the "base" AF mode/area.

"AF area": Various buttons can be assigned to change the AF area when pressed in conjunction with either the shutter or AF-ON button. Nikon simply calls this assigning "AF area" to the button.

"AF area+AF-ON": Various buttons can be assigned to ACTIVATE a specified AF area when pressed. Nikon calls this "AF area+AF-ON". This function works by either individually pressing the button or pressing it while another button is currently activating the "base" AF mode/area.

So the priority is very simple:

ANY button that is assigned either "AF area" or "AF area+AF-ON" overrides the "base" AF area regardless of whether it is activated by the shutter, AF-ON button, or lens Fn button.

There is no button hierarchy perse. If any two buttons are assigned the same level of functional hierarchy one will not override the other. First one pressed retains control. For example if you assign Fn1= single point+AF-ON and Fn2=auto area+AF-ON, whichever button you press first activates and retains functional control until released.

Nikon's terminology tends to make things more confusing. There is an AF-ON button and an AF-ON command. The AF-ON button can be programmed to do other things and the AF-ON command can be programmed to various buttons. Then there's the "AF area+AF-ON" that can be assigned to various buttons. Go figure 🤷‍♂️
I love your simple summary. Now this makes sense :)
 
This is what I've done - shutter AF activation is on, and my AF-ON button is set to 3D Tracking + AF-ON. It's beyond ideal and the best of both worlds (for my needs). I'm not setting up any functions on Fn1 or Fn2 that require me to hold them in, while pressing the shutter button (and certainly not while also holding down AF-ON).

My sub-selector / joystick center is my "shut it all off" button, set to Single Point + Subject Detection Off + Hold (so it acts as a toggle on/off and I don't need to hold it down). I think Steve uses the Display button for this. I wish Recall Shooting Functions allowed us to also switch from AF-C to AF-S, but I'm finding I haven't really used AF-S with the Z8. And popping into AF-S or M is pretty quick with AF mode set to Fn1.

Side question - does anyone use the dedicated AF mode button on the left side of the Z8/9? I hate "wasting" an Fn button but that left side AF mode button just isn't as fast to use.

Lastly we need (need) more options to quickly switch Subject Tracking modes. Right now I do it with the i-button and front / aperture dial but I'd prefer to assign it to an Fn button (and not via the "top menu item" workaround, that's different).


I like generally what he is doing, in that he is using shutter release for initial focus, and then handing off via FN1 or FN2 or BBAF
 
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Side question - does anyone use the dedicated AF mode button on the left side of the Z8/9? I hate "wasting" an Fn button but that left side AF mode button just isn't as fast to use.
I'll occasionally use it when shooting non wildlife subjects with shorter focal length lenses but with a long lens mounted up I often don't have the free hand to use that button and still support the lens and also have the Video Record button set to choose AF Area with the main control dial (on the back of the camera) swapped so that it controls AF Area Mode. Nothing wrong with using the AF Mode Selector on the side of the camera but I don't find it very convenient when using my left hand to support a larger lens.
 
Yup that's what I mean. And even for shorter lenses, it's slower. Or - I just haven't practiced enough and my muscle memory isn't there.

I wonder too - I feel like that left side AF mode button was designed to be used by the lower left palm - kind of by "squeezing" instead of using finger tips? That kind of works well. More practice needed :)
Nothing wrong with using the AF Mode Selector on the side of the camera but I don't find it very convenient when using my left hand to support a larger lens.
 
Yup that's what I mean. And even for shorter lenses, it's slower. Or - I just haven't practiced enough and my muscle memory isn't there.

I wonder too - I feel like that left side AF mode button was designed to be used by the lower left palm - kind of by "squeezing" instead of using finger tips? That kind of works well. More practice needed :)
I programmed my ISO button in combination with rear command dial to duplicate this function, and ISO control on my I menu.
 
OOPS Posted in the wrong thread....too many tabs....nothing to add here except to say we got a lot better understanding on some of the finer points to this fancy AF system.

JoelKlein- Is this going to help with your Baby shooting?
 
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I have made one change to my setup as a result of this thread. In my setup Fn1 is set to Auto Area and Fn2 to Single Point.
Because I had dedicated buttons for these modes I used a8 to prevent Auto Area from showing up as I press the side button and rotate the sub command dial.
Seemed logical at the time. Wrong. My change now is to allow the Auto Area AF mode in this round Robin "dial a focus mode" setting. Being on the Fn1 button it can never handoff. In most cases that's okay - I'll use my base setting of C1 or C2 to re-acquire focus after Auto Area. But there may be a time i want to use Auto Area Af as my base AF system so it can properly handoff to 3D.
 
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Five pages of discussions about handoff. Lots of clever experienced people trying to understand how it works, A ridiculous situation. Only Nikon knows how it works, and they need to produce a definitive guide. Then we can get on with using it to make photos.
Too many user preferred variables to provide a definitive guide IMO. Its actually better that we figure it out ourselves, as the product of that excercize is we will understand it better JMO
 
Too many user preferred variables to provide a definitive guide IMO. Its actually better that we figure it out ourselves, as the product of that excercize is we will understand it better JMO
Too much discussion on how to use the options, eg which buttons take priority in which circumstances. Nikon needs to clarify these issues.
 
Too much discussion on how to use the options, eg which buttons take priority in which circumstances. Nikon needs to clarify these issues.

While I don't argue that more info from Nikon would be welcome there is something about figuring out stuff that sticks in my mind better then reading it. Figuring out handoff was a good group effort and I think we all learned a lot.

I actually think handoff is somewhat simple now that I've tried just about every concoction we could think of (ha, that'll come back to bite me) and it's all tied to the global, or base, AF system that is set by the focus mode button (or whichever button that function is assigned to). Unless you start there, there is no handoff (tho some AF areas - such as dynamic areas don't handoff to begin with).

NorthernFocus and DRwyoming's summaries sum it up pretty well.
Personally I don't recommend waiting for Nikon to clarify anymore than they have in their guides and help topics.
 
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OOPS Posted in the wrong thread....too many tabs....nothing to add here except to say we got a lot better understanding on some of the finer points to this fancy AF system.

JoelKlein- Is this going to help with your Baby shooting?
R&D
I had to have it straightforward to print a Word doc for my wife. She is doing babies.
I think many members here got it clear once and for all until Nikon decides to change something.
 
Too much discussion on how to use the options, eg which buttons take priority in which circumstances. Nikon needs to clarify these issues.
And kill a whole third party support industry? They're just being socially conscious and provide work for people. Same thing with lens feet. Just think of all of the lost sales by RRS, Kirk, Hejnar, etc if Nikon simply supplied telephoto lenses with arca compatible feet on them. Not only that but they would be abandoning their cultural heritage. They've been doing it that way for 100 years why change now. It's heresy.
 
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