Nikon z9 vs Z8…. Not what I expected…

[Skye.prf]

I bought the Z8 as a second camera for my next travel in Africa… so I used it extensively with my 100-400, TC 1.4, and my 800 PF. I am somewhat desapointed until now… I don,t know if it is a default with my Z8… but here some points I did not expected: deals are very hard to turn (way smoother with the Z9) feels plastic (buttons and controls… but the AF is really not on par with the Z9… the lens do not « snap » on birds as quickly and reliable then the Z9 (in bushes or when something close to the AF point), my lens (both) struggle when I am closer to a target, or when the context is more crowded… my other concern is not the quality of the camera, but with my 800, the combo Z9 - 800 is more balanced, easier to stabilize and hold better in hands…. At this point, I am quite « mix-feeling » with my Z8…

 

[Tim Karels]

Interesting. I've had both now for about a year and a half (since the Z8 was released) and I really can't tell much difference. Sometimes, when I'm using the Z8 I forget which camera until I try to do a vertical shot and realize it doesn't have the bottom grip. Apart form the grip, the only other differences I notice are the battery life, and the on/off switch lag. The Z9 powers on a little more quickly than the Z8. But otherwise, all other aspects of performance are identical.

 

[Skye.prf]

Interesting. I've had both now for about a year and a half (since the Z8 was released) and I really can't tell much difference. Sometimes, when I'm using the Z8 I forget which camera until I try to do a vertical shot and realize it doesn't have the bottom grip. Apart form the grip, the only other differences I notice are the battery life, and the on/off switch lag. The Z9 powers on a little more quickly than the Z8. But otherwise, all other aspects of performance are identical.

What lens do you use? May be the Z8 is less efficient with some models?

 

[ajrmd]

I bought the Z8 as a second camera for my next travel in Africa… so I used it extensively with my 100-400, TC 1.4, and my 800 PF. I am somewhat desapointed until now… I don,t know if it is a default with my Z8… but here some points I did not expected: idéal are very hard to turn (way smoother with the Z8) feels plastic (buttons and controls… but the AF is really not on par with the Z9… the lens do not « snap » on birds as quickly and reliable then the Z9 (in brushes or when something close to the AF point), my lens (both) struggle when I am closer to a target, or when the context is more crowded… my other concern is not the quality of the camera, but with my 800, the combo Z9 - 800 is more balanced, easier to stabilize and hold better in hands…. At this point, I am quite « mix-feeling » with my Z8…

Well, this is interesting. I’ve been a vocal critic of the Z8’s AF for birds and have provided many examples where it fails to AF properly for Birds and people. The pushback has been from Z9 users who tell me that they don’t have these issues, that it must be technique, knowledge gaps, etc. can you be more specific on the difficulties you are encountering? What do you mean the lenses are struggling? Struggling to acquire focus, track properly, maintain focus, AF point jumps around, etc?

 

[Larry S.]

Reading your post I see conflicting statements….”Z8 way smoother” so I’m confused but would like to help you figure this out. I have both of these cameras and their performance is for all intents and purposes identical. Z8 battery life shorter of course. Are your settings the same in both? What dials are you referring to? The only “dials” are the “F” stop front wheel and shutter speed rear wheel and the rotating dial on the top left to select exposures (single, continuous etc). There’s a button to depress to release the lock position….

 

[John Navitsky]

as someone using both the z8 and z9 (admittedly different (but challenging) subject matter), but i basically consider the af/handling close enough to being the same as not worth worrying about.

all other things being equal (and they aren't totally, but for different reasons), it doesn't matter to me which i pick up.

that said, shooting a grueling 7 day event, 12 hours a day, i did find out that i actually DO have a preference for the z9, but it's about the handling and ergos, not about the performance.

 

[BLev65]

I personally prefer my Z9 over my Z8. I think the amount of power delivered by the battery makes a difference when it comes to the speed of driving the lens. If I could fit two Z9's in my camera bag, I'd sell the Z8 and buy a 2nd Z9. I've been using both side-by-side since the introduction of each. On the other hand, if I am not shooting wildlife, I can't see a difference in their performance.

bruce

 

[John Navitsky]

while i agree your point about the battery is a reasonable hypothesis Bruce, i thought there were some tests, maybe by Steve and Ricci that suggested the z8 was in fact driving the big lenses as fast as the z9? maybe i misremember that.

 

[SCoombs]

Well, this is interesting. I’ve been a vocal critic of the Z8’s AF for birds and have provided many examples where it fails to AF properly for Birds and people. The pushback has been from Z9 users who tell me that they don’t have these issues, that it must be technique, knowledge gaps, etc. can you be more specific on the difficulties you are encountering? What do you mean the lenses are struggling? Struggling to acquire focus, track properly, maintain focus, AF point jumps around, etc?

Agreed! This really is very fascinating. When the Z8 came out and since then many reviewers, including Steve, have said that as far as they can tell the AF performance is the same on the two cameras, and various users have said likewise.... but then there are reports - and I'm seeing more of them recently than I did for the first year or so of the Z8 - that people have used both and the Z9 is noticeably better.

Is the Z9 really just better? Could it be that people who do reviews don't notice the difference the way people who use the cameras for a very long period of time notice it?

Or, could my longtime theory be correct that there are for one reason or another two different variants of the Z8, some of which work much better than others? Are some people getting the good ones and others the weaker performers?

Or, could it be that the Z8 originally worked very similarly to the Z9 but subsequent firmware updates have caused it to decrease in effectiveness?

Or are the people who notice the difference just wrong?

I am very curious to try out a Z9 at this point and see if I notice a difference firsthand.

 

[Skye.prf]

Well, this is interesting. I’ve been a vocal critic of the Z8’s AF for birds and have provided many examples where it fails to AF properly for Birds and people. The pushback has been from Z9 users who tell me that they don’t have these issues, that it must be technique, knowledge gaps, etc. can you be more specific on the difficulties you are encountering? What do you mean the lenses are struggling? Struggling to acquire focus, track properly, maintain focus, AF point jumps around, etc?

Delay and difficulty to “snap” the target. On open area, no issues… I also hear sometime my motor in the 800… never ever happened with the Z9…

 

[John Navitsky]

i do think it’s possible the ergos/handling are possible contributors to performance

that is to say, if the grip on the z9 allows you t provide a more steady image to the camera, af performance may be improved

this may be exasperated by larger lenses

 

[Fishboy1952]

So I am shooting a pair of bald eagles that are doing a restoration on their nest. I’m using my Z8 with the 800mm PF for longer distance flight and nearer perched shots, and my Z9 with the 600mm PF for nearer flight shots. I shoot from my car and have both sitting right next to me, so I’m often swapping between the 2 back to back. Both are obviously hand held. Both cameras have identical settings and the focus modes used are based on the individual shot. I personally prefer the ergonomics of the Z9/600PF combo as I have larger hands and it feels better balanced. The Z8/800PF combo is obviously more front end weighted.
That being said, I find no noticeable difference between the performance of the 2. No obvious differences in AF performance, IQ, or use of the controls, other than the minor button differences. Battery longevity in the Z8 has to be monitored but I carry extra batteries as well as cards.
So the OP may be experiencing some differences in his use. Like I indicated, personally I prefer the Z9 based on feel and my personal ergonomics but that’s not based on performance. The Z8 is a great camera. YMMV.

 

[Skye.prf]

So I am shooting a pair of bald eagles that are doing a restoration on their nest. I’m using my Z8 with the 800mm PF for longer distance flight and nearer perched shots, and my Z9 with the 600mm PF for nearer flight shots. I shoot from my car and have both sitting right next to me, so I’m often swapping between the 2 back to back. Both are obviously hand held. Both cameras have identical settings and the focus modes used are based on the individual shot. I personally prefer the ergonomics of the Z9/600PF combo as I have larger hands and it feels better balanced. The Z8/800PF combo is obviously more front end weighted.
That being said, I find no noticeable difference between the performance of the 2. No obvious differences in AF performance, IQ, or use of the controls, other than the minor button differences. Battery longevity in the Z8 has to be monitored but I carry extra batteries as well as cards.
So the OP may be experiencing some differences in his use. Like I indicated, personally I prefer the Z9 based on feel and my personal ergonomics but that’s not based on performance. The Z8 is a great camera. YMMV.

That’s what I found for « big » birds… it is more for smaller, with crowded background where I see a significant difference. Thanks

 

[Skye.prf]

Reading your post I see conflicting statements….”Z8 way smoother” so I’m confused but would like to help you figure this out. I have both of these cameras and their performance is for all intents and purposes identical. Z8 battery life shorter of course. Are your settings the same in both? What dials are you referring to? The only “dials” are the “F” stop front wheel and shutter speed rear wheel and the rotating dial on the top left to select exposures (single, continuous etc). There’s a button to depress to release the lock position….

Typo mistake, sorry. I made corrections.

 

[Charles Loy]

I had a Z9 and added a Z8, and had no concerns as you are detailing, @Skye.prf - however I did sell it off and got another Z9. Bunch better camera in my opinion. And Z9 battery is way better, same storage in both slots, so much more.

 

[wotan1]

I chose to stick with Z9's. I like the substantial grip and balance of the Z9 body especially with larger lenses,

The ergonomics works for me.

 

[fcotterill]

Soon after the Z8 landed, there was much discussion about 'Which Camera?'. Perhaps it was too soon for reports of detailed experience with both cameras, yet the most posts are early 2024.

As it stands, the Z9 probably has the edge in AF performance... This is assuming its more recent firmware update (v5.0 13-iii-2024) incorporated the latest standard of Deep-Learning training of the subject detection.

Z8 is on Fw v2.01 (24-iv-2023)

However, only Nikon know the details about this stuff.

Z8 / Z9 DECISIONS

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I...

bcgforums.com

Z8 and Z9, which do you use the most

For those that have both cameras, which one do you use most of the time and why. Since the firmware updates are bringing them closer together in features, there are mainly hardware differences (GPS, battery, etc.).

bcgforums.com

Thinking Zf vs Z8 for backup cam....

I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body)...

bcgforums.com

 

[Skye.prf]

Soon after the Z8 landed, there was much discussion about 'Which Camera?'. Perhaps it was too soon for reports of detailed experience with both cameras, yet the most posts are early 2024.

As it stands, the Z9 probably has the edge in AF performance... This is assuming its more recent firmware update (v5.0 13-iii-2024) incorporated the latest standard of Deep-Learning training of the subject detection.

Z8 is on Fw v2.01 (24-iv-2023)

However, only Nikon know the details about this stuff.

Z8 / Z9 DECISIONS

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I...

bcgforums.com

Z8 and Z9, which do you use the most

For those that have both cameras, which one do you use most of the time and why. Since the firmware updates are bringing them closer together in features, there are mainly hardware differences (GPS, battery, etc.).

bcgforums.com

Thinking Zf vs Z8 for backup cam....

I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body)...

bcgforums.com

Probably that move from the D850 to the Z8 is a great improvement… Going from the Z9 to the Z8 (or any other camera) is unfair. I bought the Z8 as complement with the idea of selling my Z9 after my next big travel… keeping a smaller camera for travel… I changed my mind!

 

[Lee R]

Soon after the Z8 landed, there was much discussion about 'Which Camera?'. Perhaps it was too soon for reports of detailed experience with both cameras, yet the most posts are early 2024.

As it stands, the Z9 probably has the edge in AF performance... This is assuming its more recent firmware update (v5.0 13-iii-2024) incorporated the latest standard of Deep-Learning training of the subject detection.

Z8 is on Fw v2.01 (24-iv-2023)

However, only Nikon know the details about this stuff.

Z8 / Z9 DECISIONS

I have just returned from a business trip to Australia, which included a couple of days wildlife photography. On my first day out I had a disaster! I was walking with a couple of local photographers at a well know location in Sydney. I had my Z9 + 800pf on a monopod with Wimberley Mono gimbal. I...

bcgforums.com

Z8 and Z9, which do you use the most

For those that have both cameras, which one do you use most of the time and why. Since the firmware updates are bringing them closer together in features, there are mainly hardware differences (GPS, battery, etc.).

bcgforums.com

Thinking Zf vs Z8 for backup cam....

I don't need a backup camera, ultimately. I'm not a pro. That said I have the Nikon D6 as back up to my Nikon Z9. Which I've turned to twice when the Z9 was in the shop. However. Enter the 600 f/4 TC lens which becomes a paperweight if the Z9 fails (e.g. I can't shoot new lens on old body)...

bcgforums.com

Being the hardwares the same that would make the most sense. Maybe the Z9 is one revision ahead on certain subjects.

Nikon seems to be all over the place with where these cameras are in the firmware revisions for various subjects. We have the Z50ii with bird subject recognition, maybe that ones on the same version as the Z9, who knows, and the Z6iii and Zf don't have it. The Z9 doesn't have pixel shift but should and if the Z8 is maybe behind a revision for birds that should be updated as well.

All of these cameras are basically a Z9 mainboard attached to the same (Z8) or different sensor after all. Nikons just selling the same hardware over and over again and doing the best they can with the slower sensors in the less expensive models.

I ran the Zf and Z8 together with the same settings using one of my drones on a flight plan so I could repeat it exactly the same, same path, speed, altitude and found the Zf was noticeably less accurate in hit rate 84% mechanical shutter/94% in electronic, vs 98% on the Z8. I was kind of surprised it was worse with mechanical shutter and repeated it multiple times to the same result. So it seems the cameras AF systems are very sensitive to the data speed of the sensor. I'm sure the shutter is blocking the sensor for that split second and interrupting the data the AF is using to predict movement. Or at least that's the way the results seemed to appear.

I used 3d tracking with no subject detection. The D-750 hit 95% just with far less frames captured. So the DSLRs are still very good for standard AF modes.

It would be interesting to compare the Z9/8 over the firmware revisions in a repeatable test like that. It's tough to do with a bird unless someone created a stuffed bird zipline AF test run or something to that effect to repeatably test it as the firmware changes. At least the drone can test how well the AF keeps up with a fast moving subject coming strait at you or at angles as a bird would.

 

[maxxus46]

Battery size has nothing to do with actual power draw . You just have more juice on reserve with larger capacity batteries. There are tests out there that measure AF speed with fast telephoto lenses and there is zero difference between a Z8 vs Z9 when it comes to AF speed/Aquisition ( I believe Steve Perry has some tests of his own ). It's much more likely anyone finding an AF difference been these two cameras has their settings mixed up.

I personally prefer my Z9 over my Z8. I think the amount of power delivered by the battery makes a difference when it comes to the speed of driving the lens. If I could fit two Z9's in my camera bag, I'd sell the Z8 and buy a 2nd Z9. I've been using both side-by-side since the introduction of each. On the other hand, if I am not shooting wildlife, I can't see a difference in their performance.

bruce

 

[wotan1]

In designing the Z8 there is no question that in the effort to reduce size and weight some of the capability of the Z9 was reduced. In the Z8 the battery is smaller, there is only room for one CFE B card slot and heat sink capability was reduced. Of course the Z9 has a dual grip and additional control buttons. The Z8 costs less.

Despite those changes the Z8 was designed with equivalent performance capability and a comparable menu and control system. While there may be subtle differences in performance capability for the most part the two cameras are pretty close. Firmware differences do provide some differences in capability. Typically the Z9 firmware upgrades got some new features ahead of the Z8 although that is not the case currently.

There are obvious ergonomic differences between these cameras that will cause users to prefer one over the other. Many have chosen the Z8 for the reduced weight. Others prefer the ergonomics of the Z9. Choice is good and there are good reasons for a user to go one direction or the other.

I am a big guy with big hands. I work with big lenses. I am forgetful sometimes, leaving my main CFE B card at home in the card reader or forgetting an extra battery. I like the fact that having a second CFE B card in the camera means I could still do 20 fps RAW bursts. I like the fact that I can go pretty much all day with a single battery. Above all I really like the grip on the Z9 and the way it balances with big lenses. I like the fact that my Z9 is a full out professional camera built like a tank. I almost never fly anywhere these days.

On the other hand if I flew a lot with cameras weight would be a significant issue and the z8 may be a better choice for air travel.

Choose what is right for you and know you have an excellent camera either way.

 

[agrumpybirdphotographer]

Very interesting read as I’m looking to purchase a 2nd body to back up Z9 and looking at Z8 or less likely (due to my big muckle hands) Z6III……decisions / decisions.

Lots of food for thought on this thread.

 

[EricBowles]

Nikon's flagship cameras have always had slightly better performance when it comes to speed and processor power. The flagship cameras operate with higher voltage and larger batteries, so some of the advantage is related to power. The Z9 is also designed to have more ability to shed heat, and the Z8 being smaller has to be throttled back slightly. With a smaller battery and a requirement for lower operating temperature, there are processor limitations.

I don't think there is any real difference in lens performance or sounds. The lens may operate a little faster with a flagship body, but base performance such as the sound a lens makes should not be different.

It's very hard to compare two cameras precisely. They are operating different firmware - and firmware is tuned and refined over time. Subject detection is not always mentioned in firmware update notes, but almost all firmware updates include changes to subject detection. There are also capabilities that may or may not be in each camera - especially things like pre-release capture and cycle AF. Nikon does not try to keep cameras completely in synch with firmware capabilities.

When it comes to comparing focus, the specific focus target, distance, lens, and light level need to be the same. That's hard to compare. Differences in lenses are measured in milliseconds. Even with identical focus area mode choices, the cameras may operate slightly differently depending on light level and contrast of the focus target.

From a practical standpoint, if you need top level performance I would normally choose the Z9, but the Z8 is still very good and for most situations is close enough.

 

[John Navitsky]

It's very hard to compare two cameras precisely

this

 

[ajrmd]

Nikon's flagship cameras have always had slightly better performance when it comes to speed and processor power. The flagship cameras operate with higher voltage and larger batteries, so some of the advantage is related to power. The Z9 is also designed to have more ability to shed heat, and the Z8 being smaller has to be throttled back slightly. With a smaller battery and a requirement for lower operating temperature, there are processor limitations.

I don't think there is any real difference in lens performance or sounds. The lens may operate a little faster with a flagship body, but base performance such as the sound a lens makes should not be different.

It's very hard to compare two cameras precisely. They are operating different firmware - and firmware is tuned and refined over time. Subject detection is not always mentioned in firmware update notes, but almost all firmware updates include changes to subject detection. There are also capabilities that may or may not be in each camera - especially things like pre-release capture and cycle AF. Nikon does not try to keep cameras completely in synch with firmware capabilities.

When it comes to comparing focus, the specific focus target, distance, lens, and light level need to be the same. That's hard to compare. Differences in lenses are measured in milliseconds. Even with identical focus area mode choices, the cameras may operate slightly differently depending on light level and contrast of the focus target.

From a practical standpoint, if you need top level performance I would normally choose the Z9, but the Z8 is still very good and for most situations is close enough.

I'll grant you that and given my perspective with Canon and Sony, there is some truth to that perspective. The R5's AF was very good, though the R3 was a tad better. Quicker to focus and just ever slightly more reliable in tricky situations. Although I haven't used the A9III, I hear similar things compared to the A1. So, conceivably the Z9's AF system is better than the Z8 and that might explain why users are not complaining of the issues I and other people have described including the situational issues with some birds and humans.