Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

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John Navitsky said:
... I suspect we're all going to start paying closer attention to the CFE-b speeds now that we're getting cameras that can actually bump up against those limits.
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It matters to a point where the card performance exceeds the camera's capability to write from the buffer to the card. Have you seen any data on the maximum rate that the camera can write to the card? This always seems to be very difficult data to find on about any camera.
 
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DRwyoming said:
I apparently I misunderstood that but still the A1 does not shoot lossless raw at 30 FPS it is also limited to either lossy raw or jpegs at that frame rate.
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My D500 shoots 10fps and it's been sufficient for anything I wanted to do. I also don't remember the last time I shot a 3 or 4 second continuous string. I think the Z9 will be more than enough to meet any need I may have. I want to sleep on it but I think I may pre-order one tomorrow. Still trying to figure out my beautiful, loving, wonderful wife (she may be reading this). She said to go for it. That scares me. :)
 
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Duff Photographer said:
Don't bet against a firmware update. If there's a firmware update to up the video from 8k 30p to 8k 60p some time next year, then that infers that the photo frame rate could be pushed up to 30 fps RAW, but as you say 20 fps in RAW is not to be sniffed at ;)
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I was trying to say that I doubt that the hardware can’t handle 30 FPS RAW. I suspect it could and would think there’s a decent chance of a firmware upgrade. Yup. I’ll be ok with 20
RAW , 30 JPEG if not.
 
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Steve said:
My understanding is that 30FPS is jpeg only on the Nikon. Sony can do either (and there is a big difference between lossy RAW and Jpeg when you get to a photo editor). Honestly though, I'm really finding 20FPS is enough for pretty much everything. From time to time I toy with 30FPS, but 95% of the time I'm at 20. I think 30FPS, while handy at times, is really a minor practical jump from 20 for most work.

Small differences aside, I think at $5500 this is probably the best bang-for-the-buck camera on the market. Probably - gotta get one to know.
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With CFE-B I don't understand why they have such a small buffer and why they can't move that data at 30FPS. The card is double the speed essential as a CFE-A
 
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Steve said:
Yeah they did...wish I would have sold my D6 before now....
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ditto but it will make a great back up camera and while I am waiting ... it is great for digging birds out of the bushes for bird ID paired with the 600 f/4E looks like refurb on sale from Nikon would play well with a D9 until something better comes along 400 2.8 with built in TC Maybe ??
 
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dtibbals said:
I think Nikon created a hit but I did find a couple things surprising.

As someone who has shot Nikon since the F5 and recently moved to Sony a1 system this year here are my takes.

I like the built in grip, the Z9 is a sexy camera for sure! I don't mind the add on grip of the a1 and not having a grip could have some advantages at times but I have never taken the grip off so for me Nikon made the better choice with larger battery and ergonomics I suspect will be amazing. Win Nikon

I love that Nikon kept the buttons that light up! I miss this with the a1 as I do a lot of astro work. Win Nikon

I love what Nikon did with the sensor protector and how fast it appears to turn on and off. Sony uses an actual shutter to close, it works, it is slow and I worry I might damage the shutter which will lead to a costly repair. I will give this design a win to Nikon

I like the extra diversity of the rear screen on the Z9. I do prefer the rear screen to stay behind the camera as I am not taking selfies or blogging. I would say this is mostly a push between Z9 and a1 but would give the slight nod to Nikon for the extra tilt function. Slight win Nikon

Dual CF Express B cards. I haven't had any issues with the CF Express A cards (I have 3 of them), they are expensive, now with ProGrade they have come down a little in price but very limited choices. Speed of the A have been fine but I would have preferred B cards for the extra speed, especially in downloading to the computer. However Sony design does offer the best of both worlds with dual slots that support both CFA and SD cards. Much better solution then what Canon did on R3 with 2 different slots and what Nikon has done with cameras such as D850. I have never liked having 2 different card formats in the same camera. I give this win by a hair to Sony for 2 card types in one slot but still would prefer B cards like the Z9 (part of this comes from I already had B cards and readers I had to sell and replace when I went to Sony).

FPS: Well this is a bit confusing and unknown just yet. From what I am seeing I think Sony is winning this for RAW shooters. For Jpeg shooters it is a push except for the 120FPS reduced MP files. I don't see me ever using this for my type of work but hey why not include it if you can, even if there is very very limited real world use by the masses. For now win Sony

AF: To early to know, from what it looks like I am guessing Sony is likely still ahead but the gap has sure closed. Win Sony for now but way to go Nikon!

Lenses: Native glass win Sony

Lenses part 2: Adaptable glass and diversity especially with tilt shift and super tele win Nikon

Flash Sync: Win Sony

The Z9 doesn't make me regret leaving, nor would it make me come back however Nikon is on the right track so that is great! I suspect for many the Z9 keeps them for leaving which is also great! We all want and need Nikon to survive and thrive and I see the Z9 as the first real step in that future. Now if Nikon comes out with a PF big boy lens like is now rumored I sure could see buying that single lens and a Z9 or its replacement (not knowing when you could even get one of the new lenses (took me years to get a 500PF)) and using it along side my Sony gear.

I can't wait to see Steve get some seat time with the Z9 and report on what he thinks.

Today is a history making moment for Nikon as it has killed the DSLR, I see no reason to not invest into this new future.
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Pretty much my feelings plus the EVF difference, I have no regrets about switching and I imagine it’ll still be quite a while before Nikon has something comparable size/weight/quality wise to match the A1/600 f4 combo available. Even longer to have it in hand.
 
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Steve said:
My understanding is that 30FPS is jpeg only on the Nikon. Sony can do either (and there is a big difference between lossy RAW and Jpeg when you get to a photo editor). Honestly though, I'm really finding 20FPS is enough for pretty much everything. From time to time I toy with 30FPS, but 95% of the time I'm at 20. I think 30FPS, while handy at times, is really a minor practical jump from 20 for most work.
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Agree with you but still puzzled at this limitation. My take is that the readout speed, calculations per second and bus speeds are very similar in the A1 and Z9. Unless the A1 has a much larger internal buffer that. How many frames can the A1 do before the buffer slows down? I think the buffer in the Z9 could be where the bottleneck is? I may be completely wrong as well.
 
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shaned said:
Agree with you but still puzzled at this limitation. My take is that the readout speed, calculations per second and bus speeds are very similar in the A1 and Z9. Unless the A1 has a much larger internal buffer that. How many frames can the A1 do before the buffer slows down? I think the buffer in the Z9 could be where the bottleneck is? I may be completely wrong as well.
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I think you are right. The Z9 is using a faster card so it has to be the internal buffer. Nikon compared to Canon doesn't have as deep a buffer or as high as FPS. Canon seems to get more out of it than Nikon. Sony is catching up but Canon still has amazing buffers on their pro bodies.
 
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Hut2 said:
A Sony selling point is 120 AF/AE calculations per second and it is noticeable what that means when you first look through the EVF.
I didn't see the Nikon numbers but could have missed it???
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From the Nikon USA website:
Keeps up with the smallest, fastest subjects.
AF and AE calculations are made at 120 cycles per second with rapid, constant communication between the lens and the camera through the Z mount. Even small, erratic subjects like birds in flight are tracked with ease.
 
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When you pre-order the camera is it traditional for wthe retailer to charge the full amount on the credit card before they ship, or even receive the camera from Nikon, or do they hold off and not charge the card until the product ships? I’m asking because the store I’m about to pre-order with wants to let the full charge go through even though it could be months before I get the camera. The group’s advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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Just pre ordered Z9, ftz, extra battery and 2 CF type B cards. Also got qoute for selling D6, D500 (battery grip) and Tamron 18-400 to B&H. If I go ahead and ship the D6 and D500 to B&H that will leave me with just the D850 until the Z9 actually arrives.
 
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Whiskeyman said:
It matters to a point where the card performance exceeds the camera's capability to write from the buffer to the card. Have you seen any data on the maximum rate that the camera can write to the card? This always seems to be very difficult data to find on about any camera.
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If you look at that last post I made about card speeds you'll note that it looks like a Prograde Cobalt has a sustained write capability that's basically 20fps (assuming a 60MB image, which seems about right for a compressed raw). So until we get faster media, I don't think we're going to have any way to find upper limits.
 
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PAUL50 said:
When you pre-order the camera is it traditional for wthe retailer to charge the full amount on the credit card before they ship, or even receive the camera from Nikon, or do they hold off and not charge the card until the product ships? I’m asking because the store I’m about to pre-order with wants to let the full charge go through even though it could be months before I get the camera. The group’s advice will be appreciated. Thanks.
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My retailer charges $100 for a non-binding pre-order.
 
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Random thought. If my math is right and the 60MB per compressed raw image size estimate is right, we'd need a card that could sustain 1800MB/s writes in order to sustain 30fps the way we think it can sustain 20fps with the right card. Since the fastest card I know of right now is 1300MB/s, there doesn't appear to be any media on the market currently that will really support 30fps in a lossless format. That said, theoretical max for cfe-b is 2000MB/s, so it seems feasible someone _could_ make a card that could do it.
 
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