arbitrage
Well-known member
Especially if you are a fan of butt shots when it flies away before you raise the cameraanother option is to run like hell to get nearer before it flies away
Options when a bird is too far.
- Thread starter Milos
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hef19898
Well-known member
What's wrong with getting a birds backside? Those feathers are beautiful!
Milos
Member
LOL I tried that. It never works.another option is to run like hell to get nearer before it flies away
ricardo00
Well-known member
Maybe because I am lazy, but my preference is to sit down, try to look inconspicuous, and wait and pray the bird comes closer!
Doug Herr
Well-known member
+1
patience goes a long way toward eliminating the 'too far away' problem and minimizing atmospheric distortion. The trick is knowing where to sit. OTOH for myself this approach has led to an MFD problem when the bird lands on my head or in my lap.
Milos
Member
I do that too. This question is more about curiosity rather than trying to avoid walking, waiting or getting a longer lens.
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David Berry
🇦🇺 Australia 🦘
- Use full frame with TC.
- Use full frame and crop.
Use crop sensor.
- This is what I actually do (in preferred order):
- 500mm + 1.4 TC (and still crop)
- 500mm + 2.0 TC (and probably regret the choice)
- 500mm (and almost certainly mutter to myself about my decision)
- There'll always be a bird 'too far' that I 'must' photograph.
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You can always cheat by bribing the birds with food. A bird feeder usually works for smaller birds.
I have not done this but you could also use live bait for bigger raptors. I always wondered if you could use auto-capture to get shots of velociraptors by tethering a goat.
Finding active salmon spawning streams will attract eagles. But watch out for bears!!!
I am told there are areas in northern British Columbia where eagles will swoop down to take freshly caught fish.
Then there are blinds. I am told a car can be an effective blind.
I have not done this but you could also use live bait for bigger raptors. I always wondered if you could use auto-capture to get shots of velociraptors by tethering a goat.
Finding active salmon spawning streams will attract eagles. But watch out for bears!!!
I am told there are areas in northern British Columbia where eagles will swoop down to take freshly caught fish.
Then there are blinds. I am told a car can be an effective blind.
Some birds are brazen about food. I was in a park the other day and I came across a couple out doing a picnic on a sunny summer day. They were being stalked by a very persistent seagull. Crows are also aggressive.
Doug Herr
Well-known member
A car can also be a very effective way to demonstrate the effects of atmospheric distortion.
Turberticus
Well-known member
Especially when the temperature inside the car is drastically different from the outside, i.e. air conditioning in summer heat, and using the heat in winter cold. The engine running will also cause some atmospheric distortion if you're shooting something toward the front of the car. When I bird from my car I turn the A/C or heat off, and turn the engine off, unless I need to move in to a different position. Using my car as a blind has helped me get consistently closer to birds than any other approach on foot, but of course you can't bring your car everywhere
EricKlees
Well-known member
There are many scenarios that can cause issues even using a car as a blind. The sun beating down on the car heating it up, heat coming from under the car up along the doors until it comes off. Temp difference from inside and outside the car. Temp difference from inside the lens hood compared to outside the car.Especially when the temperature inside the car is drastically different from the outside, i.e. air conditioning in summer heat, and using the heat in winter cold. The engine running will also cause some atmospheric distortion if you're shooting something toward the front of the car. When I bird from my car I turn the A/C or heat off, and turn the engine off, unless I need to move in to a different position. Using my car as a blind has helped me get consistently closer to birds than any other approach on foot, but of course you can't bring your car everywhere
If I'm in my car, 30 min before i arrive, i turn off the heat or AC and roll the windows down to let the camera temp equalize. I park my car and turn it off and let it sit minimum 15 min. If you think you can just drive around and just shoot, your going to be disappointed on the images you get more often then you're happy with them
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Turberticus
Well-known member
Thanks, that's helpful. Sometimes they're soft even with the AC or heat turned off, and the engine shut off, but good point about the other sources of temperature differential. I hadn't considered those. I typically don't move much when shooting from my car so I think those problems solve themselves after 15ish mins, but I will definitely keep these in mind. It's really amazing how close you can get to birds as a human holding a gigantic eyeball while sitting in a large moving monster. Maybe that's how birds see it...
MikeInMI
Active member
A lot of time I just don't take the picture. When I do, I just take it normally and then go into Topaz Photo AI and do a heavy crop and then upsize to add pixels, and sharpen. Amazing what I can do sometimes. Here is an example.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
A lot depends on why you are taking the photograph. I am a birder and I am photographing birds for ID as I encounter them when out walking/hiking in a wide variety of terrain, habitat and light. I may or may not encounter a situation that allows for an "art" photo.
I frequently switch my Z9 and even occasionally my Z6III to DX mode. I may or may not still crop in post processing on my computer.
There are many times with a bird (especially the little bird in a bush) that DX mode is an instant help with auto focus especially with subject detection on. I have a button set up on my lenses for a one button toggle between FX and DX and I hand hold with the tripod foot resting in the palm of my hand target rifle style. I also set a control or focus ring on my lens too quickly adjust exposure compensation EV which since I use Manual mode with auto iso is changing the ISO to make the subject brighter or darker as needed. FX to DX and EV changes are the major factors in quickly helping with Auto Focus for me. All happening as I am looking through the viewfinder and focusing on the bird (I use half press shutter button focus). I also have a button set up to quickly cycle through AF Area Mode and other buttons set to go instantly to other AF Area Modes + AF On that I frequently want as soon as a bird appears in a given situation ie. small bird in a bush or a bird in flight.
I had a Z180-600 and it was a very nice lens and on my Z9 (same image resolution as the Z8) I used the same method for birds that were farther away that I use on my most commonly used birding lenses. Those lenses in order of use Z800 f/6.3, Z600 f/6.3 and Tamron z mount 150-500 the last two were the reason I sold my Z180-600.
I have a Z1.4 TC but it just sits in my dry cabinet. When I am in the field birding I have not time to put on or take off a TC. If I was in a more static predictable situation a blind or set up where I was photographing a specific bird more for a art photo rather than first for an ID photo then the 1.4 TC might be used but there is that loss of a stop of light to consider.
I frequently switch my Z9 and even occasionally my Z6III to DX mode. I may or may not still crop in post processing on my computer.
There are many times with a bird (especially the little bird in a bush) that DX mode is an instant help with auto focus especially with subject detection on. I have a button set up on my lenses for a one button toggle between FX and DX and I hand hold with the tripod foot resting in the palm of my hand target rifle style. I also set a control or focus ring on my lens too quickly adjust exposure compensation EV which since I use Manual mode with auto iso is changing the ISO to make the subject brighter or darker as needed. FX to DX and EV changes are the major factors in quickly helping with Auto Focus for me. All happening as I am looking through the viewfinder and focusing on the bird (I use half press shutter button focus). I also have a button set up to quickly cycle through AF Area Mode and other buttons set to go instantly to other AF Area Modes + AF On that I frequently want as soon as a bird appears in a given situation ie. small bird in a bush or a bird in flight.
I had a Z180-600 and it was a very nice lens and on my Z9 (same image resolution as the Z8) I used the same method for birds that were farther away that I use on my most commonly used birding lenses. Those lenses in order of use Z800 f/6.3, Z600 f/6.3 and Tamron z mount 150-500 the last two were the reason I sold my Z180-600.
I have a Z1.4 TC but it just sits in my dry cabinet. When I am in the field birding I have not time to put on or take off a TC. If I was in a more static predictable situation a blind or set up where I was photographing a specific bird more for a art photo rather than first for an ID photo then the 1.4 TC might be used but there is that loss of a stop of light to consider.
For my own personal preference, with the Z9 and 180-600, I would always opt for the crop - DX mode.
The raw files are less than 200 pixels shorter on both edges than either a D5/6 at full frame; and the D500.
My DoF does not change.
Shot contrast does not change.
The number of pixels covered by the subject does not change.
Metering can sometimes become slightly more subject-centric.
My AF Subject Detection/Eye Detect can sometimes be more accurate (so is better than FX and crop in post).
An external TC takes time to remove, a custom button for FX/DX takes a split second to change.
So I'm happy to bin the outer 50% of FX when I feel it's beneficial.
This is 600mm in DX at a distance of around 18m (so is supposedly 900mm AoV).
If I need to zoom out a tad, I can - for comp reasons.
But if I need to go wider than 400(in real terms) I'll hit my Fn2 button which pops me back into FX mode.
Also, at this sort of distance, if I have the inkling that the bird is going to fly, I'll pop back in to FX.
600mm in FX - I'd never keep all the bird in the frame in crop mode!
I've never been a fan of external TC's, and the only internal TC lens I have a lot of experience with is the awesome Canon 200-400; and the TC on that was hardly noticeable; so my dream lens would be a Z 600 f4!
But if you are happy to loose light and contrast with an external TC then, more power to you, it's just not my bag.
The raw files are less than 200 pixels shorter on both edges than either a D5/6 at full frame; and the D500.
My DoF does not change.
Shot contrast does not change.
The number of pixels covered by the subject does not change.
Metering can sometimes become slightly more subject-centric.
My AF Subject Detection/Eye Detect can sometimes be more accurate (so is better than FX and crop in post).
An external TC takes time to remove, a custom button for FX/DX takes a split second to change.
So I'm happy to bin the outer 50% of FX when I feel it's beneficial.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
This is 600mm in DX at a distance of around 18m (so is supposedly 900mm AoV).
If I need to zoom out a tad, I can - for comp reasons.
But if I need to go wider than 400(in real terms) I'll hit my Fn2 button which pops me back into FX mode.
Also, at this sort of distance, if I have the inkling that the bird is going to fly, I'll pop back in to FX.
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
600mm in FX - I'd never keep all the bird in the frame in crop mode!
I've never been a fan of external TC's, and the only internal TC lens I have a lot of experience with is the awesome Canon 200-400; and the TC on that was hardly noticeable; so my dream lens would be a Z 600 f4!
But if you are happy to loose light and contrast with an external TC then, more power to you, it's just not my bag.
We've had several discussions here about whether cropping impacts DOF. The consensus seems to be that if you view cropped at the same image size as uncropped it does affect the DOF. That's the assumption DOF calculators usually make when they compare crop camera to full frame camera with all other settings the same.
Nice shot!
Cool !Buy a sharp lens and just crop the crap out of it.
View attachment 95398
View attachment 95395
OR....buy a sharp lens, stick a 2xTC on it and then crop the crap out of it.....
View attachment 95396View attachment 95397
Nice!
ricardo00
Well-known member
Thanks Jim! Blows me away to think that I can photograph at 1600mm.
I shoot from my truck a great deal on the farm and had very good success. One of the places I go is to and oil lease/cattle pasture where pick up trucks frequent checking oil wells and the cattle and stock tanks. Birds are accustomed to these trucks and makes it easy to get photos. I drive around this area in all seasons. When it is cold i roll the windows down and turn off the heater but leave my seat heater and steering wheel heater on. I let the camera and lens equalize with the outside air temperature. It is best to shoot when I am driving with the wind as it blows the heat from the truck engine away from the area i will be shooting. If a bird happens to be on the passenger side of the truck I can easily get out of the truck and use the bed to hide behind. If you have a place to park and can kill the engine the truck can work as a good blind. In my experience even the color of the truck can have and impact.
Pics taken from the cab of a truck.
Attachments
O
Well-known member
Summed up perfectly...............
O
Well-known member
OK, If i absolutely must have the shot then its why i prefer a Higher resolution Full Frame camera that can deliver a usable degree of crop ability, 45 mp or like the Sony 61mp.
If its mirror less glass and the mirror less Z TC which the Tc would always be in my pocket, work very very well, add to that the higher MP and cropping capacity are all reasonable expectations, if that doesn't do it for you pass on the shot as Steve so rightly says.
Only an opinion
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