Bobo
Member
i kept my macro gear for Nikon: 105 in both f and z mount and my favorite the 200mmf4.
Sad day - new beginning
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With apologies for resurrecting an ancient thread (last post 13 months ago), it was interesting to reflect on the challenges many felt with Nikon's Z telephotos backlogged in the past few years. Today, in Feb. 2024, virtually all Nikon Z lenses and cameras seem available, with few exceptions (and those - such as Z 180-600 and Z 600 - are often available used). As a relatively recent convert to the Z platform, I don't have any gear access limits other than my budget, and feel fortunate to get into Z at this time of abundance.
This feels like the first "normal" year of Nikon's Z platform, in terms of a relatively full lineup of outstanding lenses (though as usual thin on DX), great camera options, and ready availability for almost all of them. Here's to Nikon for finally pulling out of the muti-year F-to-Z transition!
This feels like the first "normal" year of Nikon's Z platform, in terms of a relatively full lineup of outstanding lenses (though as usual thin on DX), great camera options, and ready availability for almost all of them. Here's to Nikon for finally pulling out of the muti-year F-to-Z transition!
O
Well-known member
Time is the most powerful currency in the world we have, spend it while you can and don't waste it as its a one way tick tock.
Remember 98% of what you achieve at this level with these tools comes from YOU.
Only an opinion
Remember 98% of what you achieve at this level with these tools comes from YOU.
Only an opinion
O
Well-known member
How come Sony can deliver and Nikon cant, it cant be Nikon's overwhelming level of orders, could it be not enough orders and they need to build batch runs, who knows.
Only an opinion
Only an opinion
Alistair
Well-known member
I know this is largely a USA site, but it is worth noting that in that other country (ROW), the 180-600 and other Nikkors are freely available for purchase.
fcotterill
Well-known member
History reveals if the Nikon product is highly desired, then often its supply will be delayed.... Obviously, the high initial demand drives a delay in meeting orders. The shortage period can extend into several months (F100, D850, Z9, 500 PF, 800 PF).
Nikon can only manufacture at a set rate of production. Their limited output of PhaseFresnel elements exemplifies this reality. External factors have also slowed production, an earthquake, also flooding, a certain pandemic, and chip shortages etc...
Yes, Frustrations flare among waiting customers, but there're no shortcuts to get ahead/around of the order queues. NPS status may or may not matter in getting preferential treatment! The only solution is to place orders at local brick&mortar stores emphasizing you are happy with a cancellations by early customers ahead on order lists. In this respect, I've learned loyalty to a local retailer pays off, provided one orders as early as possible.
Nikon can only manufacture at a set rate of production. Their limited output of PhaseFresnel elements exemplifies this reality. External factors have also slowed production, an earthquake, also flooding, a certain pandemic, and chip shortages etc...
Yes, Frustrations flare among waiting customers, but there're no shortcuts to get ahead/around of the order queues. NPS status may or may not matter in getting preferential treatment! The only solution is to place orders at local brick&mortar stores emphasizing you are happy with a cancellations by early customers ahead on order lists. In this respect, I've learned loyalty to a local retailer pays off, provided one orders as early as possible.
Marcepan
Well-known member
Good luck in pursuing your passion in the long run. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what equipment you use.
Interestingly, in Eastern Europe: 400 TC, 600 TC, 800 PF, 600 PF are available all the time.
Only poorer people...
Interestingly, in Eastern Europe: 400 TC, 600 TC, 800 PF, 600 PF are available all the time.
Only poorer people...
O
Well-known member
In some products here in oz there available also.
I think if you have lots of orders and limited supply you would favor distribution FIRST to countries that have tax advantages and or currency exchange advantages, ie more return,
I still think there is far more to this Nikon cultural delay issue, the text book excuses are not effecting Sony Fuji Tamron Sigma or Canon to the same degree.
Only an opinion
O
Well-known member
My point exactly, there is a lot of spin with Nikon's supply issues.................it just doesn't make any logical corporate sense to be this difficult to get orders filled.
I do believe that shipping to the USA may be far from being highly profitable by comparison to other locations around the world.
Only an opinion
EJARAN
New member
I know your pain. I was in the same situation, but fortunately I made the switch 2 years ago. I should have done it sooner. Luckily I sold ALL my Nikon equipment when it still had some value ($16K) and only had to kick in another $8k to get a solid Sony kit of A1, 600 f/4 both teleconverters, 24-104 and 70-200. You won't be sorry for making the switch.Well after more than 2 decades of exclusively shooting Nikon I have reluctantly switched to Sony. It's not by choice but rather necessity. I had hoped to forever stay with Nikon - shooting 95% wildlife with an occasional macro shot here and there. But after being told by my local dealer (and several others) that my none of my orders for the 400/600/800, place on the days of announcement, had any chance of arriving until end of 2023 - early 2024. I even called Niko to cancel my Nikon store order - and even they had no eta or shipping info - or - even a guess on when they might catch up with demand. Because I'm retired and officially a geezer, I have come to grips with the fact that I only have so many days of hiking around trails with gear, left in my creaky old joints. Waiting another year was a big factor for me. So, I bit the bullet and thoroughly maxed out the credit card. Sony A1, A7rV, 400f2.8, 600f4, 200-600, 1.4 tele and batteries/cards, etc. At least the sales guy at Hunts photo was happy . It is a sad day however, as I would have loved to stay on Nikon and it would have been great for Nikon to capture the $35k in revenue from me. But, my patience and physical endurance finally ran out. I'll probably keep some/most of my Niko kit - for macro work and other odd photos. I doubt I'll sell many items as you don't get much for used kit - especially DSLRs. I'll likely bundle up lens/body kits as gifts to get family and friends into photography. I gave the D500 and a few DX lenses away so far so, maybe some will grow into Nikon shooters over time.
So, now, the cussing and crying over the learning curve begins!
Next stop - I'm back to a total camera noob - time to follow the link to the store for Steve's Sony e-book? Any other Sony tips on accelerating skills are appreciated...
cheers
Like they say "it's only money". I have the same feelings about Nikon - basically they're playing catch up with Sony now. SHOOT AWAY !!!!
Vincent_VdB
Well-known member
I did switch to Sony 3 years ago for about 1,5 year ago and now back in the Nikon camp with all the gear I want.
I started literally looking today in perhaps adding a PF lens to the collection and all prime lenses are readily available from my local dealer (Belgium that is).
The one lens that still is in hot demand but short supply is the 180-600mm. A friend of mine ordered his zoom lens last August and received it this week. It was also the first week that our shop received more than 1 a week (he received actually 4) but still has a waiting list.
But again, if I like to get the 600 or 800mm PF or the 400mm f/4.5 are these lenses available for pickup. Lenses for different parts of the world do get lenses within a range of serial numbers. So, I guess it is not that simple to ship lenses from Europe to the US or vice versa I guess.
I started literally looking today in perhaps adding a PF lens to the collection and all prime lenses are readily available from my local dealer (Belgium that is).
The one lens that still is in hot demand but short supply is the 180-600mm. A friend of mine ordered his zoom lens last August and received it this week. It was also the first week that our shop received more than 1 a week (he received actually 4) but still has a waiting list.
But again, if I like to get the 600 or 800mm PF or the 400mm f/4.5 are these lenses available for pickup. Lenses for different parts of the world do get lenses within a range of serial numbers. So, I guess it is not that simple to ship lenses from Europe to the US or vice versa I guess.
Apparently we own the same shoes...getting older, patience runs out, and Sony has the package. I did this and yes, cried when I started shipping all my Nikon gear to a new home nearly 2 years ago. I am so happy I did this. Three things really helped. I used Steve's setup to customize the A1 and learned about the menus this way. I shot with that and then began to customize those settings. Second I put skins on all my gear. This for me was like marking and making this gear mine. And if protects it. Third the tracking system on the A1 seemed like cheating. I came home with shots I would not have been able to get with my DSLR gear. It won't take long to really appreciate what you are stepping into!
Many excellent comments. The ones from happy converts to Sony are a good reminder that any good system can support great photography, and ultimately we are limited by our own skills and experience. It's economically smart to stick to one brand to gain scale around lenses, etc., but the brand doesn't make the images inherently better.
Guido Bee
Member
I agree with bleirer. Some years ago I checked the valuation of the companies. Canon was 7x larger than Nikon, and Sony was about 3x larger than C + N combined.
Small can be nimble, but pure size, quantity, has a quality all its own when it comes time to fund R+D, increasing capacity / infrastructure, etc.
They (C,S and N) are all multi-national today, and have business areas well beyond just cameras/optics where they overlap: TV's, movie studio, record label, printers, monitors, office equipment and semiconductor manufacturing, where none of the others have a significant presence. ...and then there is the supply chain..... Who sources parts (sensors) from whom, and is there any incentive to prioritize quality or production / delivery schedule in those processes?
My guess is that Japan still has some of the "Japan, Inc." mentality left over from some decades ago: the belief that the Japanese industries engaged in similar business areas will largely rise or fall together, and they cooperate with each other to a significant degree. Recall that Acura, Lexus and Infinity all arrived for sale in the US in the same year. Looks like an effort to not have any of your competitors suffer, but to share, to some degree, the wealth. I have never seen anything that looked like one company trying to put another out of business. I feel we the users are lucky beneficiaries of this condition; we have choices and good products to choose from. If there was a perfect product from any maker, there would only be one maker left in that market. Choice is good for all of us, though it is not always cheaper.
Price aside, I don't recall a better time to be engaged in the photo hobby / business. Y'all be well.
Small can be nimble, but pure size, quantity, has a quality all its own when it comes time to fund R+D, increasing capacity / infrastructure, etc.
They (C,S and N) are all multi-national today, and have business areas well beyond just cameras/optics where they overlap: TV's, movie studio, record label, printers, monitors, office equipment and semiconductor manufacturing, where none of the others have a significant presence. ...and then there is the supply chain..... Who sources parts (sensors) from whom, and is there any incentive to prioritize quality or production / delivery schedule in those processes?
My guess is that Japan still has some of the "Japan, Inc." mentality left over from some decades ago: the belief that the Japanese industries engaged in similar business areas will largely rise or fall together, and they cooperate with each other to a significant degree. Recall that Acura, Lexus and Infinity all arrived for sale in the US in the same year. Looks like an effort to not have any of your competitors suffer, but to share, to some degree, the wealth. I have never seen anything that looked like one company trying to put another out of business. I feel we the users are lucky beneficiaries of this condition; we have choices and good products to choose from. If there was a perfect product from any maker, there would only be one maker left in that market. Choice is good for all of us, though it is not always cheaper.
Price aside, I don't recall a better time to be engaged in the photo hobby / business. Y'all be well.
Calson
Well-known member
I sympathize with the problems of the production people at Nikon who have had to juggle the components inventories for P&S, DX DSLR, FX DSLR, and then mirrorless DC and mirrorless FX cameras. Sony had no such legacy to content with in producing its mirrorless cameras and lenses and so a much simpler manufacturing production environment.
I was trying to use Nikon DSLR cameras with their very poor high ISO performance until 2006 when the D2x was such a disappointment. This camera was usable only up to ISO 800 and best at ISO 640 for images without too much noise for use even with the application of noise reduction. The Canon cameras produced far less noise and so could be processed in a quarter the time. With my wedding photography and working with more than 3000 image files after each event it was imperative that my post processing time be done as efficiently as possible. I made the $20,000 switch to Canon APS-H cameras and Canon lenses.
In 2008 I switched to Nikon with their releasing the D3 pro full frame camera (something not available at that time from Canon) and the superior Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8, 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses. The cameras and the lenses were far superior to the Canon cameras and Canon lenses I had been using. The 14-24mm was much sharper than the Canon 14m, 18mm, and 24mm prime lenses. The Canon 24-70mm had autofocus problems and most Canon wedding shooters used the Tamron 28-75mm lens instead.
Nikon PF lenses are unique and its tilt shift lenses are only surpassed by those from Canon. Sony has a good lens lineup for general use but has some gaps for macro, landscape, and wildlife photographers overall. The only unique lens from Sony is their 100mm f/2.8 STF GM OSS lens that does in digital what was done mechanically with the Nikon DC 105mm and 135mm lenses that I cannot use with the FTZ adapter. Definitely the best single portrait lens available from anyone. I am tempted to buy a used Sony a7C II camera to use with this lens.
I was trying to use Nikon DSLR cameras with their very poor high ISO performance until 2006 when the D2x was such a disappointment. This camera was usable only up to ISO 800 and best at ISO 640 for images without too much noise for use even with the application of noise reduction. The Canon cameras produced far less noise and so could be processed in a quarter the time. With my wedding photography and working with more than 3000 image files after each event it was imperative that my post processing time be done as efficiently as possible. I made the $20,000 switch to Canon APS-H cameras and Canon lenses.
In 2008 I switched to Nikon with their releasing the D3 pro full frame camera (something not available at that time from Canon) and the superior Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8, 24-70mm f/2.8 and 70-200mm f/2.8 lenses. The cameras and the lenses were far superior to the Canon cameras and Canon lenses I had been using. The 14-24mm was much sharper than the Canon 14m, 18mm, and 24mm prime lenses. The Canon 24-70mm had autofocus problems and most Canon wedding shooters used the Tamron 28-75mm lens instead.
Nikon PF lenses are unique and its tilt shift lenses are only surpassed by those from Canon. Sony has a good lens lineup for general use but has some gaps for macro, landscape, and wildlife photographers overall. The only unique lens from Sony is their 100mm f/2.8 STF GM OSS lens that does in digital what was done mechanically with the Nikon DC 105mm and 135mm lenses that I cannot use with the FTZ adapter. Definitely the best single portrait lens available from anyone. I am tempted to buy a used Sony a7C II camera to use with this lens.
Bill, I agree that Nikon's smaller size doesn't help. Even with that, all firms (even giant ones) struggle to manage the balance of creating enough supply to fill all channels at launch, but not destroying their company financially by overproducing, or over-investing capital in production lines that won't be needed after the initial rush of sales tapers to steady state.
One classic answer is to lock design and start production to fill all forecast volume in the months (or years) prior to launch, which means delaying a launch announcement until manufacturing has filled all launch channels - and ignoring public whining about "when ya gonna launch product YYY". If marketing and sales forecasts are off (which is nearly always!), that calculus goes out the window. It's a hassle for us when this balance isn't successfully managed, but this is not unique to Nikon; it's brain-stem level logic for all manufacturing firms.
We should of course hold our favorite brands to account for availability at launch, while at the same time complaining about delays in launch announcements - it's the no-win game camera firms have to play today. They profit most when they get it right!
One classic answer is to lock design and start production to fill all forecast volume in the months (or years) prior to launch, which means delaying a launch announcement until manufacturing has filled all launch channels - and ignoring public whining about "when ya gonna launch product YYY". If marketing and sales forecasts are off (which is nearly always!), that calculus goes out the window. It's a hassle for us when this balance isn't successfully managed, but this is not unique to Nikon; it's brain-stem level logic for all manufacturing firms.
We should of course hold our favorite brands to account for availability at launch, while at the same time complaining about delays in launch announcements - it's the no-win game camera firms have to play today. They profit most when they get it right!
My thoughts, also. As I purused the images from one particular member of this forum earlier this week, I was in awe of how they were able to capture many images with, according to some, a camera that wasn't good enough to do so.
Just a reminder that I need to get out more and practice "perfectly" to elevate my skills to more closely match the capabilities of my gear. A most important requirement for the gear is that you are comfortable using it and can also enjoy doing so.
O
Well-known member
Agree, you have made some great points.
On your point of skill sets............
With all the modern bells and whistles offered with these new computerized camera have for many some advantages, not so much for others.
I saw this in Motor Cross competitions and desert endurance races over 4 to 6 day events.
The C grader would rely 90% on the gear and accessory's and progressively less so over time as their skill sets grew.
The A grader would rely only 10% on any gear regardless of brand or features, the difference was skill sets.
In the case of Nikon supply versus moving to Sony or even Canon as there in stock on the shelf and Nikon isn't,
the switch is perfectly fine, the most important thing is product reliability and quality control assurance of products.
Some club member's are using a D2H, D750, D4s and smoking some Z9 owners in competitions ie: a bat flying inches over the water head on eyes sharp, in late afternoon golden light, a money shot, the winner was the D750 owner on a Tamron 150-600. Followed by the D4s user on a 150-600 Sigma, The Z9 500PF owner should of killed it effortlessly but the user was focused more on their setting options for answers.
Tools are only as good as the user
Only an opinion
Bobo
Member
I put my order into my dealer when the z9 and each of the big primes were announced - around 2021. The 400f2.8 became available in April 2023 and the 600 in December 23. Bought the D6 and used my existing 500f4, while waiting for the Z9. Then gave up on the big primes and switched to Sony (A1, A7RV, 200-600, 400f2.8, 600f4) in Dec 2022. But i've never sold anything - i had a ton of Z glass for the Z7, Z7II - but that kit was not suitable for wildlife my main thing. I almost didn't buy the Nikon big glass when it showed up - especially the 600 in Dec - but i did it. I had also bought the 800f6.3, 600f6.3, and 100-400 and a Z8, along the way. I did show some modicum of restraint by not buying Sony A9III when offered recently by Hunts. So, I have way more gear than any normal human needs - but i'm retired and this is my only hobby. (Member in good standing of the more money then brains club!) I do have a lot of fun shooting / comparing the systems. IMHO, the Nikon has an edge in ergos, colour science, and the built-in TC lenses are a huge advantage. The Sony is a tiny bit better at focusing/finding birds in tough situations and getting "the shot." I wish one of them had precapture in raw. Anyway - i'm having lots of fun shooting with both platforms and understand that both technologies are better than me - i think someone here said its the user not the gear and they are right...and yes - steve's ebooks were very helpful getting up the learning curve. i usually, dont submit images - but happy to do so if anyone wants comparisons...
O
Well-known member
Would be enjoyable to see what you get out of each system, if possible, a sample image or two would be interesting.
The most important thing is your happy and having fun, as my girlfriend often says Go hard or go home.
The best camera one can have is the one in your hand at the time even if its just a phone camera........LOL.
And yes to me 90% of what we achieve comes from you.
Guido Bee
Member
Bobo
Member
that's a good idea...i'm going to get some camo skins - i've found movement of a white sony lens scares birds more than the black nikon lenses. like you have the camera at the low-ready and then - a quick move up to the eye to get a shot spooks them easier - when you are close to the subject. i've learned to bring the sony kit up more slowly to try and avoid this...i tihnk skins are the way to go. i used to think they didnt matter
The longest I ever waited on a camera (13 months) was the Sony FX6. The wait time in the US was about 2 yrs when it came out.
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