John Navitsky
Well-known member
timing aside, i think we’ll see all the non gs specific features hit an a1 mkii
Sony a9iii and 300 GM Announced - Official Discussion Thread
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The tough thing there is the amount of data with the high resolution sensor. There are some things you can't do - and global shutter is probably not going to happen - which possibly implies using the existing sensor. But that aside, you're right, the Mkii will have a lot of these enhancements. Of course, on a high resolution sensor you also can't live with a base of ISO 250 so that's okay.
Sure so is a Z6 and Z7 but we aren’t comparing them all. Give Nikon 4 or so years when they have a more robust camera offering and then there will be more product segregation to compare against Sonys more robust offering.
Did you compare a D700 against an EOS 1DX MKIII? They are all cameras after all.
That’s the route I’m taking.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
right, that's why i noted all the _non global shutter specific_ features.
afaik, the a1 already can already feed the 120 fps af calc, so all the af benefits in the a9iii are just because of the new af system and not dependent on it being global shutter. this suggests you could simply bolt that new af system under the existing a1 sensor and get the same type of af performance.
it seems like the real tricks the a9iii has up it's sleeve and that won't easily flow to other bodies are:
1) video
2) flash
I agree. Maybe in a gen 3 or 4 a1 but that’s 5-6 years from now at best. Global shutter is very cool and has its place but it’s overkill for most shooting situations with the fast read out of the stacked sensors. There is a place for everything but frankly give us a better rear screen on the a1, focus breathing, focus stacking and pre capture and it would be perfect. Maybe the new af will out date the a1 as it is but it wouldn’t take much to put it at the next level.
I think when you look at the Sony models generations they are mostly small improvements kind of like an iPhone. Then every 6 or so years you see a bigger jump. I’d think this will continue for all camera brands.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i'm thinking we might see the a9iii sensor show up in a video oriented body
Straw man
All the cameras I mentioned WILL be shooting beside each other at sporting events and Ill bet you all your camera gear within the first week articles will be written comparing the A9iii to each and every one of them.
Not sure, but eagerly hoping #1. Notoriously hard to get dynamic range out of global shutters. But if the iPhone 15 is any indication (14 stops, 45mp, sub-1" sensor) my bet is that Sony cracked that. We will then see that sensor on the the new versions of the FX3, the A7S III and FX6, all due. Once again, Sony is leading the field. Next move: R1.
Possibly but like I mentioned that’s foolish.
To say xyz of the a9III beats say the Z9 might be technically correct on a spec sheet but there is way more to a cameras design and intended purpose than a spec sheet.
What is confusing is why Nikon has a Z9 and a Z8 so closely matched. I feel like the Z8 should have either been more MP than the Z9 or vice a versa. Short of size they are basically the same camera. This is something Sony doesn’t do. They have a pretty defined line of cameras for use case.
I think Nikon and Canon will both follow along as build a do it all super fast high MP camera isn’t easy and will be very expensive.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i think it's fair to say there are different ways to compare and we often run afoul be looking at it differently while thinking we are talking about the same thing
1) i think one way we've been talking about this is comparing the offering of one vendor's entry in a market segment to another vendor's entry in the same market segment
in this way, comparing the a9iii to the a1 doesn't make sense because they're basically different segments
2) another way, as Wes points out, is ya run what ya brung and we'll compare the results
and yah, the a9iii will be there with lots of other stuff, and we'll see comparisons there
although, i wonder how many a9iiis will really be there in Feb, i have to think it's going to be a select few, and perhaps with a mission to show off some specific benefits of the camera, instead of "yah, i have an a9iii and i'm covering everything" so we'll probably get a few "yah, you couldn't do this with another camera" and less of apples to apples how does the a9iii stack up against the <insert random camera> for something more normal where limitations like DR might start creeping in.
1) i think one way we've been talking about this is comparing the offering of one vendor's entry in a market segment to another vendor's entry in the same market segment
in this way, comparing the a9iii to the a1 doesn't make sense because they're basically different segments
2) another way, as Wes points out, is ya run what ya brung and we'll compare the results
and yah, the a9iii will be there with lots of other stuff, and we'll see comparisons there
although, i wonder how many a9iiis will really be there in Feb, i have to think it's going to be a select few, and perhaps with a mission to show off some specific benefits of the camera, instead of "yah, i have an a9iii and i'm covering everything" so we'll probably get a few "yah, you couldn't do this with another camera" and less of apples to apples how does the a9iii stack up against the <insert random camera> for something more normal where limitations like DR might start creeping in.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
even if they don't crack it and we have to live with an impacted DR, it's probably still a viable option considering it can do something that most can't
Not for video. $6k puts you in FX6, C70, Red Komodo territory, all 16 stops. A1 and Z9 are about 13 stops. Anyone spending that kind of money on a video body will take rolling shutter to get the DR. And the known vid specs on the A93 aren't anything special, equal or worse than the other Sony hybrids. If it has 13+ stops, it's viable for true hybrid shooters. My bet is 14.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
actually, i think this is brilliant.
basically it allows nikon to use the same tech for two different segments and imo that really puts price pressure on the competitors.
if you're a pro, you might pay the extra 1.5k to get the dual card slots that can keep up in backup mode and the improved thermal management. if it makes you money, that 1.5k isn't a huge gap.
but you can give the same basic tech and performance to the prosumer for much less who maybe doesn't need that thermal management and is more price sensitive. and this last price thing really looks substantial when cross-shopping other brands who are going to make you pay more to get into that space.
and of course, nikon already put price pressure on the competitors with their z9 design approach (the z9 is $1k less than the a1).
so basically the prosumer can have an a1 at 6500, or a z8 at 4000. that's real pressure.
and there is a development cost benefit for nikon having the same processor in multiple cameras from a software perspective.
Nikon definitely has more realistic pricing on their cameras and for some folks this is a big deciding factor.
Most A9iii will go to agencies, not individuals, that's how sports photography works on the pro level.
BlackRockArt
Well-known member
Hear, hear.
I remember when the A9 came out, two things got my attention immediately: blackout-free 20FPS & 693-point focal points with 60 AF/AE focus tracking.
To me these tech aspects were nuts; I never had to get distracted by what focus points to choose, or what area to focus on again; it was such a liberating feeling to concentrate on the subjects and artistic side of photography.
It changed my way of photography a great deal, I re-wrote many class materials just on the A9 body; later on, the A9 had 4 firmware updates, and each update made the camera better.
My A9 handled sports, wildlife, pets, events, news, portraits, weddings... any genre I threw at it. It's the most reliable camera body for the job.
I didn't upgrade to the A9 mark II, but the A9 III got me excited.
Oliver
Reason?
That's how sports photography works for the Olympics and major sports. News agencies buy the equipment, work with the camera companies (especially Canon) to stock rooms with bodies and lenses and manage file transfer. Very few "priveteers" get press passes to photograph on the fields.
Basically, those professional photographers are coming barehanded, have to pick up a factory reset body, set it all up, and be expected to shoot fluently?
fcotterill
Well-known member
[edited] Getty and the other news agencies dealing in sports and similar news images usually receive out-of-camera jpgs, which are published with perhaps cropping only. All the top end ILCs deliver adequate quality in most cases.
The current CaNiSony flagships are all capable of handling the Action AF challenges consistently. Here the success rate continues to rely as much on the photographer. And it goes without saying the best lens(es) for the different contexts etc.
An individual camera's advantages, for Pro Sports in this case, only stands out in situations such as IQ in lowlight and ability to grab sharp precise images of the most demanding fleeting moments, and succeed consistently at this. PreCapture (plus very high fps) and Custom Area AF modes with Eye tracking are 4 of the more innovative features that go a long way to up hit rates significantly for the most challenging action scenes.
@EricBowles shared an example some time ago of a Pro grabbing (almost!) every baseball strike thanks to Z9 PreCapture.
To add: this new Sony flagship is going to add a number of advanced/improved features to the ecosystem, besides the global shutter. Until it's in the wild, it is impossible to compare them reliably
The current CaNiSony flagships are all capable of handling the Action AF challenges consistently. Here the success rate continues to rely as much on the photographer. And it goes without saying the best lens(es) for the different contexts etc.
An individual camera's advantages, for Pro Sports in this case, only stands out in situations such as IQ in lowlight and ability to grab sharp precise images of the most demanding fleeting moments, and succeed consistently at this. PreCapture (plus very high fps) and Custom Area AF modes with Eye tracking are 4 of the more innovative features that go a long way to up hit rates significantly for the most challenging action scenes.
@EricBowles shared an example some time ago of a Pro grabbing (almost!) every baseball strike thanks to Z9 PreCapture.
To add: this new Sony flagship is going to add a number of advanced/improved features to the ecosystem, besides the global shutter. Until it's in the wild, it is impossible to compare them reliably
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fcotterill
Well-known member
Thom Hogan's view
sansmirror.com
bythom.com
Sony Goes Global, Shutter That Is | Sans Mirror | Thom Hogan
Sony announces a global shutter camera
What's Really Happening with Sony? | Cameras and Photography Explained | Thom Hogan
Sony announces the A9 Mark III and the Internet Gets Hot
BlackRockArt
Well-known member
David, I am not so hung up on the "focus-stacking" now, there are ways to get it done. Focus Breathing, Raw Pre-Capture and video subject AF tracking are more important to many visual artists. Going forward, I think hybrid video-photographers will take global shutter for granted.
On the other hand, competition is good for us; I don't want Sony to sit on their laurels; I expect significant firmware updates at the end of February / early March next year.
Oliver
Yeah on the firmware they multiple times said we have heard the complaints about not doing updates so I suspect we will see something. What worries me is they showed three things the update will have and if that’s all it is then they might of heard but don't really care. Hoping they surprise everyone.
+1