Sony a9iii and 300 GM Announced - Official Discussion Thread

[EricBowles]

Basically, those professional photographers are coming barehanded, have to pick up a factory reset body, set it all up, and be expected to shoot fluently?

Speaking specifically about Canon - they had one or two senior reps at a major sporting event. They were setting up cameras for specific sports or specific photographer needs. It gets very sport specific. For example, if Sony were to do that with the A9iii, they would have different focus modes and custom area modes, different configurations of the speed boost button, etc. The configuration for gymnastics is very different from boxing or swimming even though all are indoors. They would also configure remote cameras for placement at the bottom of a pool or hung from the rafters.

I would assume there is communication beforehand about specific sports or setting requests. Most of the cameras and lenses are reserved in advance. A given pro might have four cameras and lenses, but at the Olympics might need more camera bodies or specific lenses. Canon and others also are there to provide on site service and repairs, sensor cleaning, etc.

 

[Nimi]

Basically, those professional photographers are coming barehanded, have to pick up a factory reset body, set it all up, and be expected to shoot fluently?

Yup. For major leagues, Olympics and world championships, the only photographers on the field are either agency (eg AP) or the league (eg NFL). Those organizations are signed up with one camera manufacturer and equip all their photographers with cameras from that manufacturer. 5 years ago it was pretty much Canon. Since the A9ii, Sony picked up major agencies. I'm not aware of any that use Nikon. That's why a 24mp body is so crucial for both Sony and Canon. There is never a need for anything more.

For each event there are a few tractor trailers dedicated to media equipment, mostly broadcast. A half a trailer may have a "cage" with cameras, lenses, batteries, cards, etc and when photographers show up to work they pick up two bodies, lenses and monopod.

 

[JoelKlein]

Interesting information.
Before the Z9 was released, I remember seeing a picture from the swimming Olympics, a Z9 with a lens hanging from a photographer waste
I forgot the name.

 

[DavidT]

Interesting information.
Before the Z9 was released, I remember seeing a picture from the swimming Olympics, a Z9 with a lens hanging from a photographer waste
I forgot the name.

Yes you’ll see Nikon there. What is being referenced is large global media agencies such as AP and Getty who shoot Sony. Both agencies used to be all Canon. AP and Getty will by far have the largest amount of photographers at an Olympic Games.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Yes you’ll see Nikon there. What is being referenced is large global media agencies such as AP and Getty who shoot Sony. Both agencies used to be all Canon. AP and Getty will by far have the largest amount of photographers at an Olympic Games.

Both Getty and AP will send about 30 photogs each but the vast majority of photographers are from other publications. NYT, LA times, USA today, ESPN, etc. Then you have the photogs for sports equipment makers and sponsors. Then multiply that by all the countries competing and it gets to be quite a few photogs!

 

[Nimi]

Interesting information.
Before the Z9 was released, I remember seeing a picture from the swimming Olympics, a Z9 with a lens hanging from a photographer waste
I forgot the name.

You'd be shocked at the number of Canon D1X mk III still being used in sports. Nikon tried but failed with the D5/6 to unseat it. Sony absolutely rocked the pro sports photography world with the A9ii and has eroded Canon's supremacy. The new 9iii and 300/2.8, unless Canon shows an R3ii or R1 with global shutter will probably crown Sony as the king. Nikon is a no-show in this area, instead focusing on wildlife.

 

[EricBowles]

You'd be shocked at the number of Canon D1X mk III still being used in sports. Nikon tried but failed with the D5/6 to unseat it. Sony absolutely rocked the pro sports photography world with the A9ii and has eroded Canon's supremacy. The new 9iii and 300/2.8, unless Canon shows an R3ii or R1 with global shutter will probably crown Sony as the king. Nikon is a no-show in this area, instead focusing on wildlife.

These are usually long term contracts - 4-5 years or longer. Margins are very thin - almost no profit involved.

You get some odd behavior because of these contracts - for example a few years ago with the D4 one of these agencies did not want to replace CF cards with CFExpress - so Nikon made CFExpress an option with a process to convert to the D4 from CF Express from CF for a fee. You also have some budget impact of these decisions. Video is a requirement for all of these agencies.

 

[Nimi]

These are usually long term contracts - 4-5 years or longer. Margins are very thin - almost no profit involved.

You get some odd behavior because of these contracts - for example a few years ago with the D4 one of these agencies did not want to replace CF cards with CFExpress - so Nikon made CFExpress an option with a process to convert to the D4 from CF Express from CF for a fee. You also have some budget impact of these decisions. Video is a requirement for all of these agencies.

Are you seeing agencies asking photographers to use their hybrid cameras for videos? I've noticed some Red Komodos on sidelines recently (RF mount) and none of my friends is shooting R3s and A9s in video.

 

[EricBowles]

Are you seeing agencies asking photographers to use their hybrid cameras for videos? I've noticed some Red Komodos on sidelines recently (RF mount) and none of my friends is shooting R3s and A9s in video.

The PGA Tour photographers (employees of the PGA Tour - not agency photographers from AP, Getty and others who follow the tour) had it as a critical requirement when they bought Z9's. The camera gear today is good enough that video and stills are required - even with all the television cameras in play. Budget was also a factor - they really did not want to replace a bunch of good lenses like the 180-400 while spending for new camera bodies.

 

[Cameron T]

The PGA Tour photographers had it as a critical requirement when they bought Z9's. The camera gear today is good enough that video and stills are required - even with all the television cameras in play. Budget was also a factor - they really did not want to replace a bunch of good lenses like the 180-400 while spending for new camera bodies.

Was that also because of the electronic only shutter? I'd imagine that's a concern for them

 

[EricBowles]

Was that also because of the electronic only shutter? I'd imagine that's a concern for them

Yes - that was an important criteria. Almost all golf photographers have silent cameras today. Even before moving to the latest mirrorless cameras, there were a number of golf photographers using an earlier mirrorless with a DSLR. But rolling shutter is a big deal with golf so only the latest cameras have a fast enough readout to largely eliminate that problem.

Using a conventional mechanical shutter at the wrong time will get you fired. I know of one person who lost their credentials permanently because they used a mechanical shutter at the wrong time.

 

[Cameron T]

Yes - that was an important criteria. Almost all golf photographers have silent cameras today. Even before moving to the latest mirrorless cameras, there were a number of golf photographers using an earlier mirrorless with a DSLR. But rolling shutter is a big deal with golf so only the latest cameras have a fast enough readout to largely eliminate that problem.

Using a conventional mechanical shutter at the wrong time will get you fired. I know of one person who lost their credentials permanently because they used a mechanical shutter at the wrong time.

Ouch. That's harsh, but I understand a little of why.

 

[DavidT]

FYI Sony direct is showing expected availability date of the a9III as February 21-22. A bit sooner than I think some expected.

 

[Rectory Photography]

An interesting initial take on the camera...Ignore the video title , which is click bait.

 

[RichF]

How well does Sony have Global Shutter technology locked up behind patents? WIll they license the technology? at 47 MP, will it be limited to 60 fps (still super fast)?

 

[John Navitsky]

well, nikon can get 120fps with the z9*. it’s probably more of a question about the bandwidth capability of their processing pipeline. i would be a bit surprised if they designed a pipeline that couldn’t do 120fps on thei a1 sensor (although it may have limitations)

* jpg, but they had to get the data from the sensor

 

[John Navitsky]

sidebar and off topic, but this discussion makes me think maybe the jpg output on the z9 at 120fps is from the _EVF_ data stream. we know it runs at 120fps and maybe that’s why the 120fps on the z9 is 11mp.

ok, sorry for the off topic

 

[Nimi]

How well does Sony have Global Shutter technology locked up behind patents? WIll they license the technology? at 47 MP, will it be limited to 60 fps (still super fast)?

Sony provides sensors to all (still and hybrid, not cine) camera manufacturers except Canon, so Nikon will have one at some point. Canon has its own patents for global shutters. So does Onsemi, but there is no evidence they're interested in photography. Ditto Forza.

 

[fcotterill]

How well does Sony have Global Shutter technology locked up behind patents? WIll they license the technology? at 47 MP, will it be limited to 60 fps (still super fast)?

We can expect to hear more about GS sensor technology and products.... Canon and Nikon (#124 above) each announced a sensor with a global shutter, and Canon's is FX

The Sapphire 8K sounds impressive - Atomos state the specs are 8K at 60 fps, 4K at 240 fps and 1080 up to 360 fps. Remarkably, it generates little heat (only 2 W !), and "...a partnership is in place and ready for production should a buyer come along...." - and this article has intriguing implications on camera R&D, and particularly sensor availability

Atomos ‘Sapphire’ Sensor Revealed: Global Shutter, Full-Frame, 8Kp60

Atomos reveals the details behind its newly developed sensor.

petapixel.com

Nikon collaborates with Atomos on synchro video tech and RAW recording etc - so certainly a space to watch

more -

Atomos CEO reveals more details about its full-frame 8K global shutter image sensor

The sensor, named the Sapphire F8, features global shutter, 12-bit capture and can record 8K up to 60fps. Atomos CEO Trevor Elbourne says the sensor was originally made to be used in an Atomos-branded cinema camera that ultimately never came to fruition.

www.dpreview.com

Atomos Has Developed a New 8K Camera Sensor

A new player in the sensor space.

petapixel.com

 

[SMB]

Rose and I were thinking the same thing about the a1ii. I wonder if we'll see a 51MP global shutter

I bet you will, for $8500!

 

[RichF]

Rose and I were thinking the same thing about the a1ii. I wonder if we'll see a 51MP global shutter

Why 51 MP?

 

[macwalter]

Any thoughts on the releases?

Personally, I'm impressed with the a9iii. I know it's only 24 MP, but global shutter, 120 FPS in RAW, pre-capture, and probably the best AF on the planet once it's out seems pretty impressive.

I'm also thinking about that 300 2.8. I normally don't go for 300 2.8 lenses, but the size and weight have me reconsidering. It only weighs a few ounces more than the 600PF!

I’ve been saying all along that Nikon needs a lightweight 300/2.8. This lens would be expensive for sure but less so than the big guys and at just over 3lbs very handholdable with excellent f4 at 420mm and 600mm at f5.6. I do a lot of early shoots where light is at a premium and having f2.8 on something longer than 200mm would be grand. Personally I’m not so big on the global shutter a9iii as it’s only 24mp which would require big glass to get close enough. But the day will come when this technology may become more affordable and move into more platforms,Canon and Nikon etc. For me the 300 f2.8 is a compelling reason to have Sony gear like an a1. Also considering how good the new Nikon z8-9 are, how much better does the AF have to be. I don’t use flash much though so I can see how it has major advantages in other types of photography. I also don’t do video and from what I hear the rolling shutter issue is pretty minim in the z8-9. Just my thoughts for what they are worth.

 

[Steve]

I’ve been saying all along that Nikon needs a lightweight 300/2.8. This lens would be expensive for sure but less so than the big guys and at just over 3lbs very handholdable with excellent f4 at 420mm and 600mm at f5.6.

I'll see you 300 2.8 and raise you a 300 2.8 with a TC THAT would be cool!

 

[DavidT]

I'll see you 300 2.8 and raise you a 300 2.8 with a TC THAT would be cool!

It would be cool but will be heavier and longer. Patrick Racey who’s a sports photographer is excited for the 300GM but he said it’s a perfect basketball lens. He said as a sports photographer when tournaments come around he will have to shoot from 9am-11pm and lift that lens up and down thousands of times a day. The lighter lens and body make this the best for all day use.

I think our purpose is a secondary one for this lens.

 

[Nimi]

It would be cool but will be heavier and longer. Patrick Racey who’s a sports photographer is excited for the 300GM but he said it’s a perfect basketball lens. He said as a sports photographer when tournaments come around he will have to shoot from 9am-11pm and lift that lens up and down thousands of times a day. The lighter lens and body make this the best for all day use.

I think our purpose is a secondary one for this lens.

Ditto automotive. Put my name down for the 9iii and 300/2.8.