Sony a9iii and 300 GM Announced - Official Discussion Thread

[lukemeup]

Looking at some samples posted on flickr with this 300 + TC14 it appears to be pretty comparable to Nikon's 400 F4.5 bare (except it's 420 F4), maybe with a tad more nervous bokeh.

Nikon's 400 4.5 is 2.5lbs (and it's not a PF lens). I wonder how much would 300 2.8 weigh if they decided to make such lens following similar optical formula. They have a patent for it submitted (bundled up together with 400 2.8 and 600 f4 patent).

 

[BlueGil21]

I'm no expert on this but I think you have been lucky. This past weekend actually on the Z8 I was experimenting and was getting noticeable banding with HSS at about 1/400 and higher. I was trying to use 1/800 or 1/1000 but the banding was too significant. This prompted me to do an internet search because I'd wondered if with the high readout speed of the Z9 it shouldn't be a problem but it seems that there are a lot of people out there discussing their disappointment with the banding they get on the Z9 with hss.

The only possible caveat is that I have seen some people report that it only occurs with an on camera flash and not with a flash placed elsewhere, but I haven't been able to verify if this is generally true.

I will say that I noticed the banding most on lighter backgrounds, but I didn't look too closely so it may be there on darker ones, too.

Not my experience. Do you mind telling the brand of flash unit? Some brands work great and others seem to have issues due to fw and communication issues.

 

[SCoombs]

Not my experience. Do you mind telling the brand of flash unit? Some brands work great and others seem to have issues due to fw and communication issues.

People across the internet have talked about having banding with Nikon flashes, Godox, and others, so even Nikon's own first party flashes.

As I said, some people report not having banding with their flashes off-camera, and it seems to happen most noticeably with brighter backgrounds which are within a certain distance.

Perhaps you haven't used flashes in these circumstances.

 

[DavidT]

This is a good video that touches on some extra details. One thing I like is the speed boost button can be used to go up or down in speed and can be programmed to be at any fps you like. It doesn’t have to just be 120. I think 60 will be a more normal use case for me.

I also really appreciate Sony continuing to offer full customization. Take precapture for example, you can use the shutter release or have it programmed to work with a back button focus button.

They also took a play from Nikon and now you can custom create focus boxes/areas. This further expands on Sonys ability to be customized which I really love about their cameras.

Lastly, it’s pretty obvious from the attached video that the global shutter won’t make it into all new cameras anytime soon. I believe from what they are saying is that it’s going to stay in the a9III. The next a1 doesn’t appear it will have the global shutter as they mentioned the 24.6MP is a sweet spot to keep speed and have it work correctly. The a1 was described as the jack of all trades which it is and it looks like it will continue to be the flagship for a do it all camera. The a9 will be the special capabilities model and the a7R will be the resolution monster with the a1 being more resolution than an a9 but faster than the a7R family.

From what they said I’d expect the next generation a1 to have the improved af we are seeing in the a9, a little faster frame rate but I wouldn’t expect it to be over 60 and likely cap out at 40. The MP won’t change but we will get the pre capture and such. It will still do 8k so I’d expect some advancements there but likely not much.

Frankly the gen 2 a1 will likely continue to be the perfect wildlife camera. So I’m sticking with my a9III preorder because it will compliment my a1’s and when they can be upgraded they will be more matched in af etc. but the a1 will give me MP when wanted.



https://www.youtube.com/live/Vz0rw4YNiLM?si=4zoprCVnML7YttIk
https://www.youtube.com/live/Vz0rw4YNiLM?si=4zoprCVnML7YttIk

 

[RKOP]

The A9III is Sony defense against Z9, and while global shutter is clearly an advance, as I understand its benefits it will not benefit 90% of my wildlife photography. Z9 offers pre capture, and if Nikon upgraded to RAW at 30fps I'd be a very happy camper. the last thing I need are 6gb files!

 

[John Navitsky]

i don't think the a9iii is aimed directly at the z9. it seems like it's more of a new segment.

when the a9iii features _other than global shutter_ come to an a1 update, then that's more targeted towards the z9

 

[RKOP]

Now a speed boost feature will be great... I noticed the B&H discussion panel mention mentioned Canon but not Nikon - even when talking about pre-capture.

 

[John Navitsky]

PR-M pointed out (correctly i think) the user interface for speed-boost may not be easy to use.

 

[arbitrage]

The A9III is Sony defense against Z9, and while global shutter is clearly an advance, as I understand its benefits it will not benefit 90% of my wildlife photography. Z9 offers pre capture, and if Nikon upgraded to RAW at 30fps I'd be a very happy camper. the last thing I need are 6gb files!

I don't see the A9III being a defence against Z9. Very different cameras. The A1 competes more with the Z9. Until the Z9 surpasses the A1 (which in my use of both cameras I don't feel it does) then Sony isn't needing any defence.
Z9 has some features missing from the A1 and A1 has features missing from the Z9.
Z9's pre-capture is okay but jpeg only and at 120FPS is very small jpegs. When I used it it was fun to play around with but I would never use it in my normal shooting due to the jpegs. A9III will be something you can work into a regular shooting workflow just like Olympus'pre-capture feature.

 

[DavidT]

The A9III is Sony defense against Z9, and while global shutter is clearly an advance, as I understand its benefits it will not benefit 90% of my wildlife photography. Z9 offers pre capture, and if Nikon upgraded to RAW at 30fps I'd be a very happy camper. the last thing I need are 6gb files!

lol it’s not a defense against the Z9. Cameras designed for a different purpose and frankly the a9 and Sony is the first to market yet again with a ground breaking technology in a stills camera which is the global shutter, speed and looking like they will yet again raise the bar in af performance over everyone else.

 

[Cameron T]

lol it’s not a defense against the Z9. Cameras designed for a different purpose and frankly the a9 and Sony is the first to market yet again with a ground breaking technology in a stills camera which is the global shutter, speed and looking like they will yet again raise the bar in af performance over everyone else.

Global shutter was in a bunch of cameras a long time ago, including the d1. Not a first. Maybe a first for cmos though.

It's also not a shock a company who owns a lot of sensor production and a ton of money has first pick of sensor tech.

It'll be cool to see it mature, but right now I'm curious to see the dr loss and iq.

 

[HotGates]

Regarding 120FPS: Keep in mind the new "boost" feature. You could set the camera to 15 or 20FPS and then boost to 120 (or 60) as needed. To me, this is a great solution. You can have a finger hovering over the boost button to instantly increase frame rate when the action intensifies and leave it set lower for the rest of the time. No need to shoot 120FPS all the time - you could have it for just the moments you want it.

Steve that's a great feature and the OM1 has that great feature with a press of a button only when you need it. But Canon has that feature too on the new cameras I just don't know if you can add it to a button or if you need to get into the menu to enable it. But what pisses me off about Nikon is they have it too but only 11mp and jpeg only WTH were they thinking?

 

[HotGates]

Photo mechanic is a game changer.

I also find FastRawViewer excellent

 

[HotGates]

The A9III is Sony defense against Z9, and while global shutter is clearly an advance, as I understand its benefits it will not benefit 90% of my wildlife photography. Z9 offers pre capture, and if Nikon upgraded to RAW at 30fps I'd be a very happy camper. the last thing I need are 6gb files!

Exactly sony not for me anyways but I have been telling Nikon ambassadors a piece of my mind for them not getting on nikons case for this stupid jpeg stuff. My take is Nikon will do it in a firmware update they have no choice.

 

[EricBowles]

This is a good video that touches on some extra details. One thing I like is the speed boost button can be used to go up or down in speed and can be programmed to be at any fps you like. It doesn’t have to just be 120. I think 60 will be a more normal use case for me.

I also really appreciate Sony continuing to offer full customization. Take precapture for example, you can use the shutter release or have it programmed to work with a back button focus button.

They also took a play from Nikon and now you can custom create focus boxes/areas. This further expands on Sonys ability to be customized which I really love about their cameras.

Lastly, it’s pretty obvious from the attached video that the global shutter won’t make it into all new cameras anytime soon. I believe from what they are saying is that it’s going to stay in the a9III. The next a1 doesn’t appear it will have the global shutter as they mentioned the 24.6MP is a sweet spot to keep speed and have it work correctly. The a1 was described as the jack of all trades which it is and it looks like it will continue to be the flagship for a do it all camera. The a9 will be the special capabilities model and the a7R will be the resolution monster with the a1 being more resolution than an a9 but faster than the a7R family.

From what they said I’d expect the next generation a1 to have the improved af we are seeing in the a9, a little faster frame rate but I wouldn’t expect it to be over 60 and likely cap out at 40. The MP won’t change but we will get the pre capture and such. It will still do 8k so I’d expect some advancements there but likely not much.

Frankly the gen 2 a1 will likely continue to be the perfect wildlife camera. So I’m sticking with my a9III preorder because it will compliment my a1’s and when they can be upgraded they will be more matched in af etc. but the a1 will give me MP when wanted.



https://www.youtube.com/live/Vz0rw4YNiLM?si=4zoprCVnML7YttIk
https://www.youtube.com/live/Vz0rw4YNiLM?si=4zoprCVnML7YttIk

I listened to the same program and had the same conclusions. Looks like a great camera.

The sensor readout for Global Shutter has about 6 times as much data with the A1. They may get there, but it's very difficult to have an immediate readout with a large sensor. The same goes for frame rate - files are much larger with the A1 so it's harder to have 120 fps RAW without a crazy buffer.

They mentioned a burst length of around 192 images at 120 fps. That's 1.6 seconds and generates 6 GB. With CFExpress A cards, write speed is around 700 MB/s. So it writes about 1100 MB and will take another 7 seconds to completely clear the buffer. You can resume shooting at 120 fps immediately - but since the buffer is full, it will take time before space is created. Nikon ran into that issue with pre-release capture and has limited that function accordingly. I would assume Sony is doing something similar. What is interesting is the ability to shoot 120 fps large JPEG on the A9iii. Since JPEG files are much smaller, it would allow almost much faster clearing for 120 fps bursts.

I found the ability to use a button to have higher or lower frame rates on the fly to be a great feature. On the Nikons, I would liek ot have a Fn button to use in that manner. I ran into that this past weekend. I was in Single shot mode when action started faster than expected. I had no time to switch to a high frame rate during the action as it was a series of riders going over a jump at around one per second. Best case it would have taken me 7-10 seconds to make the change and there was simply no time.

I wonder how important 120 fps RAW really is in practice. For sports, it's probably great for for a one on one shoot, but for a game, the workflow probably has a lot of people needing JPEGs for immediate transmission.

I think a lot of people will end up with two cameras - an A1 for lower volume work, and a A9iiifor sports and events where the frame rate is needed.

 

[Cameron T]

I listened to the same program and had the same conclusions. Looks like a great camera.

The sensor readout for Global Shutter has about 6 times as much data with the A1. They may get there, but it's very difficult to have an immediate readout with a large sensor. The same goes for frame rate - files are much larger with the A1 so it's harder to have 120 fps RAW without a crazy buffer.

They mentioned a burst length of around 192 images at 120 fps. That's 1.6 seconds and generates 6 GB. With CFExpress A cards, write speed is around 700 MB/s. So it writes about 1100 MB and will take another 7 seconds to completely clear the buffer. You can resume shooting at 120 fps immediately - but since the buffer is full, it will take time before space is created. Nikon ran into that issue with pre-release capture and has limited that function accordingly. I would assume Sony is doing something similar. What is interesting is the ability to shoot 120 fps large JPEG on the A9iii. Since JPEG files are much smaller, it would allow almost much faster clearing for 120 fps bursts.

I found the ability to use a button to have higher or lower frame rates on the fly to be a great feature. On the Nikons, I would liek ot have a Fn button to use in that manner. I ran into that this past weekend. I was in Single shot mode when action started faster than expected. I had no time to switch to a high frame rate during the action as it was a series of riders going over a jump at around one per second. Best case it would have taken me 7-10 seconds to make the change and there was simply no time.

I wonder how important 120 fps RAW really is in practice. For sports, it's probably great for for a one on one shoot, but for a game, the workflow probably has a lot of people needing JPEGs for immediate transmission.

I think a lot of people will end up with two cameras - an A1 for lower volume work, and a A9iiifor sports and events where the frame rate is needed.

Not that this goes back to saving your shots this weekend, but set a dial to control it, and with it you can swap from single shot to continuous high in about two or three clicks. Takes a quarter second, if that.

 

[Bennvdm]

I listened to the same program and had the same conclusions. Looks like a great camera.

The sensor readout for Global Shutter has about 6 times as much data with the A1. They may get there, but it's very difficult to have an immediate readout with a large sensor. The same goes for frame rate - files are much larger with the A1 so it's harder to have 120 fps RAW without a crazy buffer.

They mentioned a burst length of around 192 images at 120 fps. That's 1.6 seconds and generates 6 GB. With CFExpress A cards, write speed is around 700 MB/s. So it writes about 1100 MB and will take another 7 seconds to completely clear the buffer. You can resume shooting at 120 fps immediately - but since the buffer is full, it will take time before space is created. Nikon ran into that issue with pre-release capture and has limited that function accordingly. I would assume Sony is doing something similar. What is interesting is the ability to shoot 120 fps large JPEG on the A9iii. Since JPEG files are much smaller, it would allow almost much faster clearing for 120 fps bursts.

I found the ability to use a button to have higher or lower frame rates on the fly to be a great feature. On the Nikons, I would liek ot have a Fn button to use in that manner. I ran into that this past weekend. I was in Single shot mode when action started faster than expected. I had no time to switch to a high frame rate during the action as it was a series of riders going over a jump at around one per second. Best case it would have taken me 7-10 seconds to make the change and there was simply no time.

I wonder how important 120 fps RAW really is in practice. For sports, it's probably great for for a one on one shoot, but for a game, the workflow probably has a lot of people needing JPEGs for immediate transmission.

I think a lot of people will end up with two cameras - an A1 for lower volume work, and a A9iiifor sports and events where the frame rate is needed.

You can override frame rate with rsf (recall shooting function). Problem is only one rsf, so need to use banks if want to use for more than one function. With rsf you can assign higher iso, shutter speed etc and af mode of choice to have an instant fast action setting.

 

[Wes Peterson]

lol it’s not a defense against the Z9. Cameras designed for a different purpose and frankly the a9 and Sony is the first to market yet again with a ground breaking technology in a stills camera which is the global shutter, speed and looking like they will yet again raise the bar in af performance over everyone else.

Actually Id say Sony touting 120 AF calculations per second is a direct defense against Nikons claims of the same. We never heard any claims about calculations per second until Nikon used it in its marketing. Sony is even using photos of bullets leaving barrels in their marketing..... just like Nikon did with the Z9. It also seems as tho the A9iii is being released a bit prematurely since they already have a firmware update scheduled for it.... sounds like they were under pressure to me. As far as global shutter yeah its a big deal but its really only a big deal for flash users and sports and wildlife photogs arent real big on flash. A base Iso of 250 likely rules out portrait shooters due to noise issues or lack of DR.

If Sony isnt at least a little worried about Nikon then they are at least taking a few cues from Nikon's PR team. I'm sure the A9iii is going to amazing but to scoff at the idea of Sony not needing to defend against the Z9 (which steve says now leads in bird AF) seems a bit unrealistic.

 

[Tiago C]

Actually Id say Sony touting 120 AF calculations per second is a direct defense against Nikons claims of the same. We never heard any claims about calculations per second until Nikon used it in its marketing. Sony is even using photos of bullets leaving barrels in their marketing..... just like Nikon did with the Z9. It also seems as tho the A9iii is being released a bit prematurely since they already have a firmware update scheduled for it.... sounds like they were under pressure to me. As far as global shutter yeah its a big deal but its really only a big deal for flash users and sports and wildlife photogs arent real big on flash. A base Iso of 250 likely rules out portrait shooters due to noise issues or lack of DR.

If Sony isnt at least a little worried about Nikon then they are at least taking a few cues from Nikon's PR team. I'm sure the A9iii is going to amazing but to scoff at the idea of Sony not needing to defend against the Z9 (which steve says now leads in bird AF) seems a bit unrealistic.

Sony mentioned AF calcultations per second in marketing content of mirrorless cameras way before the Z9. For example for the a9 launched in 2017:

 

[Wes Peterson]

Sony mentioned AF calcultations per second in marketing content of mirrorless cameras way before the Z9. For example for the a9 launched in 2017:

View attachment 73987

I stand corrected.

 

[Steve]

Steve that's a great feature and the OM1 has that great feature with a press of a button only when you need it. But Canon has that feature too on the new cameras I just don't know if you can add it to a button or if you need to get into the menu to enable it. But what pisses me off about Nikon is they have it too but only 11mp and jpeg only WTH were they thinking?

Nikon isn't great with options, it's been one of my long standing complaints. Sony (and others) do much better in this regard.

 

[John Navitsky]

Actually Id say Sony touting 120 AF calculations per second is a direct defense against Nikons claims of the same. We never heard any claims about calculations per second until Nikon used it in its marketing. Sony is even using photos of bullets leaving barrels in their marketing..... just like Nikon did with the Z9. It also seems as tho the A9iii is being released a bit prematurely since they already have a firmware update scheduled for it.... sounds like they were under pressure to me. As far as global shutter yeah its a big deal but its really only a big deal for flash users and sports and wildlife photogs arent real big on flash. A base Iso of 250 likely rules out portrait shooters due to noise issues or lack of DR.

If Sony isnt at least a little worried about Nikon then they are at least taking a few cues from Nikon's PR team. I'm sure the A9iii is going to amazing but to scoff at the idea of Sony not needing to defend against the Z9 (which steve says now leads in bird AF) seems a bit unrealistic.

i'm pretty sure the sony said something about 120 af calcs per second with the a1. i think basically this is where you end up with stacked and global sensors.

 

[DavidT]

Actually Id say Sony touting 120 AF calculations per second is a direct defense against Nikons claims of the same. We never heard any claims about calculations per second until Nikon used it in its marketing. Sony is even using photos of bullets leaving barrels in their marketing..... just like Nikon did with the Z9. It also seems as tho the A9iii is being released a bit prematurely since they already have a firmware update scheduled for it.... sounds like they were under pressure to me. As far as global shutter yeah its a big deal but its really only a big deal for flash users and sports and wildlife photogs arent real big on flash. A base Iso of 250 likely rules out portrait shooters due to noise issues or lack of DR.

If Sony isnt at least a little worried about Nikon then they are at least taking a few cues from Nikon's PR team. I'm sure the A9iii is going to amazing but to scoff at the idea of Sony not needing to defend against the Z9 (which steve says now leads in bird AF) seems a bit unrealistic.

You’re wrong on the af calculations. That was in their marketing for the a1 since day 1. I guess Nikon copied them with this logic.

Frankly anyone trying to compare the a9III to the Z9 is foolish. I wouldn’t compare the a1 to the a9III either. Different cameras for different needs.

Sony has a broad offering of cameras to meet the needs and wants that matter most to a user for them. Some are about size and weight, others are about video, or speed while others are about high resolution. You aren’t stuck with little choices you can buy what best fits your needs.

If one wants to compare the Z9 or Z8 against a Sony camera it’s the a1.

Bottom line is Sony isn’t playing catch up to anyone they are continuing to release new innovative cameras for specific uses. Just as Nikon is doing with lenses catered around wildlife shooters. I doubt many portrait or wedding photographers care about 600 and 800 PF glass.

Each brand has an ecosystem that is unique and similar in some cases but trying to direct compare one or the other as winning or losing at this point is foolish. Each is in a different development stage and it’s been obvious for a while Sony has been ahead in sensor and camera development. They should be they were first to market. What’s also clear is they are still pushing the envelope with new technology which benefits everyone.

 

[Wes Peterson]

Frankly anyone trying to compare the a9III to the Z9 is foolish. I wouldn’t compare the a1 to the a9III either. Different cameras for different needs.

Everyone will be comparing it to the Z9 and A1 as well as the R3 and future R1. All of those cameras will be at the Olympics and other sporting events. The A9iii is still just a camera isnt it? lol

 

[Rectory Photography]

I think a lot of people will end up with two cameras - an A1 for lower volume work, and a A9iiifor sports and events where the frame rate is needed.

I think this could well happen in the wildlife field.....I could certainly see myself having scenarios for both cameras until a higher MP camera with many of the A9 lll features such as improved AF and pre capture is released.