Thermal Optics for Wildlife Viewing

[Krishnakotti]

I just got topgon, not entirely happy with it.
Still need get used to it. I was hoping to search for short eared owls in a pasture. I felt it is might not be the best way to use it.

 

[arbitrage]

I just got topgon, not entirely happy with it.
Still need get used to it. I was hoping to search for short eared owls in a pasture. I felt it is might not be the best way to use it.

Would the owls typically be buried down in the grass or up on posts/perches? If too much grass is covering them you may not see the heat signature. If up on posts should work fine.

 

[Krishnakotti]

I agree, i am just testing it out to see how i need to use it.

 

[deeno]

I also ended up with a TM15-384 (but V1).

Today was completely overcast and "chilly" (about 50-54F). So pretty much what I thinkto be ideal conditions to give it a try for where I live. I used it to point at some known things at various distances (based on advice here) during daylight hours, my hope is to spot owls roosting or coyotes in open fields with it. "Red hot" worked wonderfully to see a great horned owl that was sleeping on a branch in a Eucalyptus tree. It was a bright red blob through the thermal, but not clear enough to use for an ID which was disappointing as the distance was only 35ft. But I was also expecting to not see much of anything from a sleeping owl due to it having good insulation, so I will take it. I was also very surprised to see songbirds way up in the canopy flying around in the thermal, they were obvious and showed up as bright white. The refresh rate is good enough that I didn't feel like the screen was lagging when I was scanning or the birds were flying around, so this was better than expected. On the downside, I managed to step on some dog poop while I had my eye glued to the mono. It was worth it though

One note for other thermal green horns like me, tree branches and leaves basically block the thermal. It's probably obvious to others that this would be the case, but it wasn't to me and became very obvious when walking around and looking at the owl. So if anyone is expecting to just look around and be able to see things through walls etc (ie x-ray vision), that's not going to happen. Just scanning a tree or an area was not enough even when I knew exactly where the owl was, I needed to move to a different angle and rescan and repeat until the owl was not obscured by branches and then it showed up very obviously. My wife called it "cheater mode" when we had the right field of view.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

 

[wildfowler]

I want to thank Wildflower and nmerc for all the information. I just bought the Pulsar Merger LRF XT50, can't wait to try it out. The information and photos in this thread have been awesome, thank again nmerc, awesome review of your experiences.

If you get a chance please send us some screen shots of how you’re using it along with the distance to the bird. Which should be easy with the LRF.

It definitely gave me a “wow factor” I’ve not seen in thermal for a while now.

 

[jcnemy]

I just got topgon, not entirely happy with it.
Still need get used to it. I was hoping to search for short eared owls in a pasture. I felt it is might not be the best way to use it.

I had the same position the first few times using it and feel like I've fine-tuned my technique to get the most of it. It definitely works well in low-light/dark settings, picking up mammals with ease...and depending on surface temps of birds, them as well. During daylight hours, seems to work best in shaded or non-painted areas from direct sunlight since everything is warmed up.

I was able to pick up birds in flight....albeit, they were unobstructed shots and suspect their bodies were still warm from painted setting sun light.

I'm downloading some test pics and such and will post a follow up from my last test/outing hopefully sometime today.

 

[jcnemy]

Now being a little familiar with the Topdon TS004 within knowing more of strengths and weaknesses and with better weather, decided to test things out on my friendly great-horned owl.

Additional details:

• it was partly cloudy, mostly sunny
• temp was arend 55-degrees
• sun was to my back and the area was getting a mix of painted, direct sunlight
• it was around 4:30, so is was a little more than 1.5 hours until sunset.
• using 'Bird' mode with the unit (tried others, but Bird was the best)

Bottomline Upfront -owls, at least this one, does not 'pop' or standout when scanning. His heat signature blends perfectly with that of tree limbs and the only way you can see him through the scope is when he's silhouetted against the sky.

Pics below - first I'm about 50m (rough guess) away. And yes, he saw me first and was able to position and re-acquire him, albeit he perched in the thick of limbs and junk.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Maybe about 35 meters

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Different perch.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Another

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

And now one with the Z9/800PF. This perspective is from the first two thermal images above.

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

To sum this up, even though the TS004 picks up things here and there, seems owls have thermal stealth during daylight hours. So - this unit is not going to meet my requirements, but going to give another test or two before confirming.

 

[nmerc_photos]

It seems most of what you guys are critiquing are just weaknesses of a 256 thermal with <40mK.

I think if everyone could splurge enough for a 384, it would resolve those issues. Specifically, the AGM 15-384 V2 is probably the best bang for the buck thermal out there at less than $1000 USD new.

 

[ABaumgardner]

I see FLIR has a monocular with 32 degree field of view. I do wonder if you're better off maximizing pixels per degree though at the expense of more passes to scan an area. Not sure yet if I want to try the FLIR or the AGM V2 15-384 or just splurge even more for a pulsar.

 

[jcnemy]

It seems most of what you guys are critiquing are just weaknesses of a 256 thermal with <40mK.

I think if everyone could splurge enough for a 384, it would resolve those issues. Specifically, the AGM 15-384 V2 is probably the best bang for the buck thermal out there at less than $1000 USD new.

Yep - solid observation and recommendation. Researching that right after I post this. Seems like Arbitrage will be able to provide some solid 'compare and contrast' between that and the TS004 here soon.

 

[VinnyH]

You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.

Just another image from my AGM TM10-256. A couple of deer I heard behind me while scanning some tree tops.
Still learning and exploring with it. I learned a fully charged unit will lose half of that power just sitting about 5 days in my bag. Always plan a good charge. It does last a good 7 hrs or so when charged right before going out.
Vinny

 

[deeno]

The sleeping great horned owl yesterday I used the TM15-384 for looked similar to Vinny's deer pic in the TM15-384 (albeit the solid red part was smaller). The images from jcnemy's TS004 would not really help me find anything. One other difference though is that the owl I was looking at was at the bottom of the canopy completely out of the sun, not the top. It sounds like that likely matters a lot so may not just be the difference between the two thermal units

 

[jcnemy]

The sleeping great horned owl yesterday I used the TM15-384 for looked similar to Vinny's deer pic in the TM15-384 (albeit the solid red part was smaller). The images from jcnemy's TS004 would not really help me find anything. One other difference though is that the owl I was looking at was at the bottom of the canopy completely out of the sun, not the top. It sounds like that likely matters a lot so may not just be the difference between the two thermal units

Thanks for the feedback, definitely reinforces nmerc's recommendation on the TM 15-384 to meet what most people 's exceptions when using a thermal.

 

[arbitrage]

My 15-384 V2 has arrived. Only had a chance to step into the backyard and quickly evaluate the view.
I like that the EVF is magnified to a size similar to the Topdon unlike the AGM 10-256 which was like looking at a postage stamp...LOL. I'm not talking about the FOV, just the size of the image you see presented to you.
Certainly the overall image is nicer than the 256 units where you can more easily tell which tree/bush you are looking at when it is fairly dark out.
Will do a back to back with the Topdon on Friday and make my final decision. I'm guessing I'll be choosing the AGM 15-384 V2 over the Topdon.
Also the 15-384 V2 comes with 2 batteries (as they are now removable and replaceable). It has a very fancy charger included also.

 

[jcnemy]

My 15-384 V2 has arrived. Only had a chance to step into the backyard and quickly evaluate the view.
I like that the EVF is magnified to a size similar to the Topdon unlike the AGM 10-256 which was like looking at a postage stamp...LOL. I'm not talking about the FOV, just the size of the image you see presented to you.
Certainly the overall image is nicer than the 256 units where you can more easily tell which tree/bush you are looking at when it is fairly dark out.
Will do a back to back with the Topdon on Friday and make my final decision. I'm guessing I'll be choosing the AGM 15-384 V2 over the Topdon.
Also the 15-384 V2 comes with 2 batteries (as they are now removable and replaceable). It has a very fancy charger included also.

Congrats and look forward to your follow-up observations and comments. I've already started to prepare for the anticipated winner being the 384, I just dropped off my Topdon at the Amazon return station. Plan on splurging for the 384...but sort of wondering if my available useful time is coming to an end with spring just around the corner where I tend to squirrel on other photo genres and different birds.

Decisions...decisions...decisions.

 

[AlanB313]

Thanks to @nmerc_photos for starting this thread. Lots of great info. I might have to get something like this. Every once in a while I try for members of the nightjar family like poorwills. This could help.

My current approach is to choose a warm night with moonlight if possible, as they seem to stay active longer than just after dusk. Insects are more active. I look for the gleaming eyes in the distance alongside a dirt road or trail. Then approach slowly. They often stay put until you are within photo range. I think their instinct is to freeze and blend in. They are very camouflaged and need to be found away from brushy vegetation. The thermal could perhaps help find them before they are on bare ground.

 

[arbitrage]

I don't think this adds anything we haven't already learned from this great thread from Nick and others but I follow Scott on YT and enjoy his content.

 

[bcgnz]

I apologize if this question has already been answered, but I’m still quite perplexed about the available options.

Should I get the TaipanV2 19-384 instead of the 15-384? Saw it’s just $300 more..

 

[arbitrage]

I apologize if this question has already been answered, but I’m still quite perplexed about the available options.

Should I get the TaipanV2 19-384 instead of the 15-384? Saw it’s just $300 more..

I think the only real difference other than slight dimension and weight differences is the FOV. The 19 will have a narrower FOV. That lets you see things at a greater distance but requires one to move the monocular around more to scan a given area.

 

[arbitrage]

Question for those that have any of the AGM products....can anyone get it to charge and/or connect to a computer through a USB-C to USB-C cable? I can only get it to charge and connect to the computer using the supplied USB-A to USB-C cable. This seems ridiculous that I have to bring along this cable and can't use a USB-C to USB-C cable which is what I use for every other device I own. The Topdon has no issues charging via a USB-C to USB-C off of any of my USB charging supplies.

Am I missing something or is this just some really weird restriction on the device. To connect to my MacBook I used the Apple USB A to C dongle and the AGM supplied A to C cable and that works. I thought I was done with dongles FFS.

The supplied portable charger for the V2 AGM does work on USB-C to USB-C cables and all my chargers. But I don't see myself needing to use that often and would rather just plug in directly most of the time.

 

[Brian W]

Question for those that have any of the AGM products....can anyone get it to charge and/or connect to a computer through a USB-C to USB-C cable? I can only get it to charge and connect to the computer using the supplied USB-A to USB-C cable. This seems ridiculous that I have to bring along this cable and can't use a USB-C to USB-C cable which is what I use for every other device I own. The Topdon has no issues charging via a USB-C to USB-C off of any of my USB charging supplies.

Am I missing something or is this just some really weird restriction on the device. To connect to my MacBook I used the Apple USB A to C dongle and the AGM supplied A to C cable and that works. I thought I was done with dongles FFS.

The supplied portable charger for the V2 AGM does work on USB-C to USB-C cables and all my chargers. But I don't see myself needing to use that often and would rather just plug in directly most of the time.

I chose the AGM V2 15-384 based on discussions on this thread. The USB-A to C cable supplied was required to connect to the pc. The USB-A to C adapter worked for me as well. There must be an input voltage constraint on the device or something like that. I've had to add another cable to my bag.

 

[VinnyH]

Question for those that have any of the AGM products....can anyone get it to charge and/or connect to a computer through a USB-C to USB-C cable? I can only get it to charge and connect to the computer using the supplied USB-A to USB-C cable. This seems ridiculous that I have to bring along this cable and can't use a USB-C to USB-C cable which is what I use for every other device I own. The Topdon has no issues charging via a USB-C to USB-C off of any of my USB charging supplies.

Am I missing something or is this just some really weird restriction on the device. To connect to my MacBook I used the Apple USB A to C dongle and the AGM supplied A to C cable and that works. I thought I was done with dongles FFS.

The supplied portable charger for the V2 AGM does work on USB-C to USB-C cables and all my chargers. But I don't see myself needing to use that often and would rather just plug in directly most of the time.

I have it charging with a usb-c/usb-c cable on my M4 Mini setup. Honestly don't know where the original AGM cable is, I have so many.

 

[nmerc_photos]

I don't think this adds anything we haven't already learned from this great thread from Nick and others but I follow Scott on YT and enjoy his content.

I'm glad to see that content creators are finally picking up on the movement. IMO, a thermal is something that every wildlife photographer needs in their kit. It's a much better investment than say a newer body or newer lens, in most cases.

I'll hopefully be able to watch the whole thing sometime later.

 

[bcgnz]

Thanks for the explanation. Is the consensus that the 15 is more versatile than the 19? If budget allows and just for general applications, I shall choose the 15?

 

[deeno]

> can anyone get it to charge and/or connect to a computer through a USB-C to USB-C cable

I think it is PC only based on the manual referencing "pc" repeatedly. This is likely your problem (I'm in the same boat)

> Is the consensus that the 15 is more versatile than the 19?

Versatile not sure, but to scan and find things for photography, wider is the one you want, ie the 15 (my opinion, can't speak for others). I would have preferred the 10-384 if it was available, but it is not.