z9 Failure

[7News]

Thankfully, my lockups haven't been frequent. That's no excuse and I agree with you, however, they are more of an inconvenience than real problem - although the first time I miss a once-in-a-lifetime shot I won't be so understanding.

I know if I were shooting weddings (as I did back in the film days) it would worry me. Can you imagine it locking up as the bride was coming down the aisle, during the kiss, during the bouquet toss, or cake cutting? Yikes.

Hopefully it's just firmware and they'll get it sorted (although "Just wait for the next firmware update" has become to battle cry of the Z user). I'd also like to say it's just the internet megaphone, but I have had it happen and have been with too many people when it happened. At least no one I know has had one brick on them.

As a former photojournalist for a major metropolitan daily and a former wedding photographer, the nightmare of the page one missed spot news shot and the missed shot of the bride kissing her father after he walks her down the aisle plays through my mind continuously Steve! As you stated, hopefully its just firmware and Nikon gets this sorted out quickly.

 

[O]

Thankfully, my lockups haven't been frequent. That's no excuse and I agree with you, however, they are more of an inconvenience than real problem - although the first time I miss a once-in-a-lifetime shot I won't be so understanding.

I know if I were shooting weddings (as I did back in the film days) it would worry me. Can you imagine it locking up as the bride was coming down the aisle, during the kiss, during the bouquet toss, or cake cutting? Yikes.

Hopefully it's just firmware and they'll get it sorted (although "Just wait for the next firmware update" has become to battle cry of the Z user). I'd also like to say it's just the internet megaphone, but I have had it happen and have been with too many people when it happened. At least no one I know has had one brick on them

So the question is ...............

After 3 updates its still an issue and probably getting worse rather than better as its still happening, i wonder why it hasn't been fixed or is it that like covid we just have to live with it.

I am not dependent on staying with the Z9 as i haven't invested in the glass.

To sell or not to sell has been resolved as things are not getting fixed.

 

[Steve]

So the question is ...............

After 3 updates its still an issue and probably getting worse rather than better as its still happening, i wonder why it hasn't been fixed or is it that like covid we just have to live with it.

I am not dependent on staying with the Z9 as i haven't invested in the glass.

To sell or not to sell has been resolved as things are not getting fixed.

No idea.

There's part of me (I used to do programming a couple of decades ago) that thinks maybe they kill off one bug and introduce another. I've done it myself LOL

I hate to say the "S" word, but my a1 bodies seem to have more complex software (they can do a lot more) and I've had zero lockups with them since their first firmware update a year and a half ago. They just work and have, overall, seen more use and abuse than my Z9. Of course, it might be hardware issue they are struggling with. Plus, random lockups terribly tough to pin down. Again, I want to stress that, so far, these lockups haven't really stunted my work and have only been a minor annoyance. 99.9% of the time (or more) my Z9 is fine.

Just want to keep it in perspective. And, for my use, I don't have to worry about blowing a paid gig

 

[John Woodworth]

As a former photojournalist for a major metropolitan daily and a former wedding photographer, the nightmare of the page one missed spot news shot and the missed shot of the bride kissing her father after he walks her down the aisle plays through my mind continuously Steve! As you stated, hopefully its just firmware and Nikon gets this sorted out quickly.

I got my Z9 in early January and have had zero issues. I am shooting events/musician promotional materials. Seldom shoot bursts...So far never above 10 fps unless just playing around.

Since this problem has come to my attention I now carry a second body for even the most routine and simple gig.

I'm in this position of "absolutely must get the shot", and losing confidence in the Z9 is not good for me or Nikon.

 

[O]

I got my Z9 in early January and have had zero issues. I am shooting events/musician promotional materials. Seldom shoot bursts...So far never above 10 fps unless just playing around.

Since this problem has come to my attention I now carry a second body for even the most routine and simple gig.

I'm in this position of "absolutely must get the shot", and losing confidence in the Z9 is not good for me or Nikon.

Thats what is starting to weigh heavy on my mind..............i know it can be emotional mostly but gee whiz, i could stake my life on the D6 D4s D3x why not on the Z9

 

[Krümelkraft]

Regarding the relative amount of reported lock-ups here in the forum, I would say: Yes, there is a systematic quality problem with the Z9.
Whatever it is, semiconductor technology will always be the weak point of modern cameras. As today's cameras become increasingly powerful, I wouldn't be surprized by an increased amount of reported issues.

I think we should stop blaming memory cards, batteries, firmwares etc... It is what it is. Every lockup is one too much. It's up to Nikon to find out.

The good thing is: The more lockups, the sooner Nikon will adress the issue and eventually release a product advisory.
So, the best thing would be probably to report any lockup to Nikon immediately.

For now, I have cancelled my efforts to get a Z9 and I will stick to my beloved D850 (which might lockup, too, but never did). I simply cannot afford a spare camera.

 

[Wes Peterson]

The people getting the lockups should REALLY be comparing notes on what features and settings are enabled. The fact that this is happening in early and late Z9s as well as across several firmwares leads me to believe it might be an issue with a few very specific conditions. On the other hand Nikon sold A LOT of Z9s and in reality it seems only a small percentage of them are having issues. If they were building 3900 a month which i believe is what was reported, and until recently they have been out of stock, then id say we are looking at around 50,000 cameras all hitting anxious shooters within a year. even half a percent failure rate means a few hundred duds.

That being said, if mine locked up even once it would be in a box on its way to getting a new board under warranty.

 

[PhotoKat]

FWIW I received my Z9 in January 2022 and had occasional lock-ups during 20 fps bursts that necessitated pulling the battery and re-inserting. After installing FW 2.0 the camera has functioned flawlessly with very heavy use. I have experienced no problems with FW 3.0. I use Delkin Black 128 GB cards. My conclusion at this time is that the FW upgrade solved my particular issue. I purchased a 2nd Z9 in June 2022 and have had no issues at all.

 

[Chris K]

When this thread started and people were throwing "bricked" around, I was pretty worried. To me, "bricked" means a dead unit that goes back to Nikon.

It seems the recent (and maybe all?) reports are actually lockups, and can be solved by a battery pull. That still sucks, but at least it's recoverable. Nobody pays me to shoot these days, so it's not the end of the world if I miss a shot of a kid or a goose. But it's still really frustrating. I've had a few cameras over the years that would periodically lock up, and it definitely gives me feelings of "the one that got away".

(FWIW, my Z9 hasn't locked up yet on 3.0, although I have <1000 frames since update.)

I expect we'll see a 3.0.1 soon, and this will all be behind us. Until then, I recommend everyone practice pulling batteries with their eye to the viewfinder!

 

[bleirer]

How was this done?

I've had a camera where the mirror literally got stuck in the up position. Up down up down up....dang it. You take off the lens and if you don't see a mirror where expected you reach in with a fingernail and gently tug till it drops into position.. Don't try it on mirrorless cameras though.

 

[JamesFarrell]

As a new Z9 owner (mid-September) I’ve been following this thread from the beginning. I am getting the ‘impression’ that those of you that shoot less than 20 FPS, e.g., 10, 12 or maybe 15 FPS routinely are not reporting ‘lock ups’ or at least as many issues as those who shoot mostly at the max frame rate. Just wondering if throttling back some keeps some internal parts from overheating or getting fried. I admit that my so-called ‘impression‘ may be misguided or naive.

 

[BCDan]

The people getting the lockups should REALLY be comparing notes on what features and settings are enabled. The fact that this is happening in early and late Z9s as well as across several firmwares leads me to believe it might be an issue with a few very specific conditions. On the other hand Nikon sold A LOT of Z9s and in reality it seems only a small percentage of them are having issues. If they were building 3900 a month which i believe is what was reported, and until recently they have been out of stock, then id say we are looking at around 50,000 cameras all hitting anxious shooters within a year. even half a percent failure rate means a few hundred duds.

That being said, if mine locked up even once it would be in a box on its way to getting a new board under warranty.

Wes,

I mostly agree with you except I don’t think it’s as easy as sending the camera off for a replacement part on demand just because it’s under warranty.

My situation, in Canada, has been quite frustrating. Speaking & emailing with Nikon Service Canada ended with them telling me “Since you’re the only one reporting this, and since you can’t tell us what brings on the lockup, you can send it to us and we’ll look at it. But since it only happens once every few weeks and many thousands of photos, there’s little chance we’ll experience the issue, therefore there’s little chance we’ll be able to fix it.”

As for comparing notes, I’ve been trying. I’ve also tried to get Nikon Service Canada to speak to Nikon USA to compare notes. Finally on Friday, November 18th, when I saw the post of a bricked Z9’s replacement of a pcb, and the video of the one locking up, and sent links of them to NSC, they finally acknowledged that I might not be the only one reporting this. And, they said they'd be in touch with Nikon Service US soon.

In the US, there were two very well-known NPS users with great intentions who tried to assist with their Nikon contacts. It led to a brick wall for me.

Keep in mind it would cost me about $500 for shipping and insurance for little chance of getting anything fixed, and the loss of use of the Z9 for who knows how long. And, since I had it lock up when I had two different lenses, and two TC’s on it, they said they’d need the lenses and TC’s to properly diagnose the Z9. The scaled up shipping and insurance for that would be about $1900.

Or, I could keep using it and try to document as much as possible, wait for a known fix (hopefully a firmware update) and save the money. Until it bricks or there’s better odds for a positive outcome by sending it in, I’ll continue to hold on to it and use it.

In a documented situation such as mine, if the fix is possible only after the warranty expired, the fix is almost universally treated as a warranty repair.

Certainly, others might choose to send it in upon the first lockup and I’d never fault them for doing so. The pros and cons just balance out differently for me.

Wes, I say you are fortunate to not have experienced any lockups, and I hope your good luck continues.

Dan

 

[Ralph]

My Nikon D500 "locked-up" (gave an error code) a few weeks after I got it. Nothing would unlock it (changing lenses, taking battery out and putting in a new one that was freshly charged, etc). Since I was leaving on a trip in a couple weeks, the dealer where I bought it "flipped the mirror" and the camera was unlocked and never suffered this problem again. So far my Z9 has not locked up (after 10 months of fairly extensive usage), so hoping my good luck will continue. And agree that things happen, can be any camera at any time.

Something like that happened years ago with my Canon F1. The shutter jammed. . Took it to a local dealer and he released it with a match book cover. Never happened again. There doesn’t have to be a computer inside to have issues.

 

[John Navitsky]

As a new Z9 owner (mid-September) I’ve been following this thread from the beginning. I am getting the ‘impression’ that those of you that shoot less than 20 FPS, e.g., 10, 12 or maybe 15 FPS routinely are not reporting ‘lock ups’ or at least as many issues as those who shoot mostly at the max frame rate. Just wondering if throttling back some keeps some internal parts from overheating or getting fried. I admit that my so-called ‘impression‘ may be misguided or naive.

i shoot several thousand images in a setting, always 20fps lossless compressed raw. delkin black 650gb. i haven't seen any problems with any fw version that couldn't be attributed to user error. shoot primarily 70-200s and 100-400s.

personally i don't think shooting these bursts raises temperatures to even close to a worrisome level with a good cfe-b card. maybe if i was using one of the old lexar cards or similar, but i don't consider this "hard use".

i know this thread is full of impending doom, but i'd warn that reports on the internet tend not to be a great way to assess risk.

get good cards. follow good media handling practices. if you need a backup body have a backup body. if you need to run in backup mode, run in backup mode. save your settings. if you run into a problem, that's why you have the backup body.

and this isn't a z9 thing. those d5s and a1s are at risk too.

it's probably not time to throw our cameras into the volcano just yet.

ymmv

 

[ricardo00]

Something like that happened years ago with my Canon F1. The shutter jammed. . Took it to a local dealer and he released it with a match book cover. Never happened again. There doesn’t have to be a computer inside to have issues.

Thanks Ralph! That was my point (which was a follow-up to a prior post of someone else), any camera can have a problem. As a Z9 owner, I hope there isn't a systemic issue with this camera and can certainly appreciate the frustration that an individual who has paid $5,500 for a brand new Z9 and is on an important shoot must feel if the Z9 stops working. I have followed this thread, hoping to hear if there is a quick way to "unbrick" a Z9 which gets locked up and learn what might cause this issue and hope that I haven't distracted from the issue and/or sounded unfeeling to those who have suffered this issue. I can feel the pain and if it was me, certainly could see switching to another system if Nikon did not appear to be willing to address the issue. So hoping this issue is resolved soon.

 

[Larry Shuman]

sounds like the Z9 is a BETA camera.

 

[Nimi]

On a positive note, just see how many new members (and a couple trolls) joined our little corner of the inteweb as a result of this thread! Next thing you know they'll become Supporting Members to keep this thing going!

 

[StarDust]

Unfortunatly 2 types of issues got mixed up in this thread.

The reliability of Z9 as individual camera and the subject of this post of 4 Z9s failed within proximity of space and time.

The second one from my view is The infinite monkey theorem (For those who insist that such four failures are Nikon related)

a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will eventualy compose the complete works of William Shakespeare

 

[John Navitsky]

Unfortunatly 2 types of issues got mixed up in this thread.

The reliability of Z9 as individual camera and the subject of this post of 4 Z9s failed within proximity of space and time.

The second one from my view is The infinite monkey theorem (For those who insist that such four failures are Nikon related)

i think it's inevitable that anything similar to the former will morph into the latter. probably some internet six-degrees-of-separation thing :-D

 

[Maljo]

Our cameras are computers. Bugs and reboots are par for the course. Bricks are not.

 

[Maljo]

Maybe some day an outfit like Lensrentals will tell us what the annual failure rate is for various cameras and how different manufacturers and models compare.

 

[O]

Regarding the relative amount of reported lock-ups here in the forum, I would say: Yes, there is a systematic quality problem with the Z9.
Whatever it is, semiconductor technology will always be the weak point of modern cameras. As today's cameras become increasingly powerful, I wouldn't be surprized by an increased amount of reported issues.

I think we should stop blaming memory cards, batteries, firmwares etc... It is what it is. Every lockup is one too much. It's up to Nikon to find out.

The good thing is: The more lockups, the sooner Nikon will adress the issue and eventually release a product advisory.
So, the best thing would be probably to report any lockup to Nikon immediately.

For now, I have cancelled my efforts to get a Z9 and I will stick to my beloved D850 (which might lockup, too, but never did). I simply cannot afford a spare camera.

Unfortunately in today's world companies, politicians, institutions what ever react quicker to chatter - complaints found on social media, forums and the internet generally.

The more chatter the sooner things get attention and are dealt with seriously.
The trust and wait approach doesn't always work, as companies monitor the internet forums and chats and don't act quickly unless they see they have to, in this case with Z9 its serious....especially if your a victim, regardless of the numbers.

ie:
A) if on a expensive paying job or expensive international trip,
B) very expensive if its out of warranty.
C) effects resale if left on going and watered down as trust sells.

Loose a Z9 customer and they loose 5 lens sales, collateral damage ? till they fix it ?

The issue may be small in numbers for now, the issue has been running for years with many previous models and different brands according to the web history, just this one with the Z9 is more serious again if it bricks on you and costs you a job, trip or effects adversely resale as its hard to sell out of warranty with a stigma.

The problem is like a bush fire, it needs to be dealt with fast and properly before it gets out of control, the issue is now 11 months old and getting worse ? or is it ? or just the start of a bigger issue, hence one assumes its possibly more a design/software issue ? who cares its a fix that is needed fast and once and for all.

If it was a small niggling issue we tend to tolerate it and hope it gets addressed, this Russian Roulette or un-lucky dip lock up issue then Brick is a whole different game.

Out of proportion one asks, not if your a Victim.

Many large companies can be very arrogant in addressing issues.

Nikon is a multi Billion organization, it deserves no compassion or sympathy at this level as the issue has been running for a while, it has the money and power to do things properly and quickly, why cant Nikon do what their competitor successfully can,

Only an opinion

 

[John Navitsky]

the issue is now 11 months old and getting worse ? or is it ? or just the start of a bigger issue, hence one assumes its possibly more a design/software issue ? who cares its a fix that is needed fast and once and for all.

huh?!

 

[Calson]

With a computer if there is a bad floppy disk the write operation will eventually time out. With a hard drive if a bad sector is encountered during a write operation the drive controller will map out the bad sector and write data to the good sector. With a SSD a similar process takes place as bad segments are removed from use and new ones added from the "pool".

With digital cameras my experience has been that there is no write error recovery coded in the firmware. I suspect that this is because the engineers think it is important to alway finish writing a file to the memory card before the camera is powered off. This is a safety feature but if there is a bad segment on the memory card there is not the internal logic on the card or with the camera to go to a different segment on the card.

A card only needs to have bad segment in the data area or in the FAT to have a problem. If may be less than 1% of the memory card and so the card may work for a very long time until the card writes to that particular segment. I have found similar problems with bad memory controllers in computers or bad static and dynamic Ram in devices where unless a program ran that used the bad sections, there was no problem evident. With the bad memory controllers there was a batch of more than 10,000 Toshiba laptops where the processor chip was not soldered correctly and the entire motherboard had to be replaced. Not an easy problem to diagnose as the failure depended the applications use of the Ram.

With my D500 I had two XQD cards that had problems and I had them replaced by their manufacturers. With the Z9 many people have had problems with 8k video which puts maximum demand on the memory card and only the Delkin Black and ProGrade high capacity CFexpress cards are entirely without issues.

 

[O]

huh?!

Is it Nikon is prioritized with its share holder relations department more than investing properly in its the design department.

It often seems like they build from behind and rectify or finish in the filed over time, and running 3rd behind the competition, that signature smacks of cost cutting and restrictive development budgeting. If you have the money you have the resources to achieve excellent outcomes, you just need to part with the money a little in eh right way and place..

They wouldn't want to be in the para shoot business or bungee cord making industry LOL.

Hey i like my Nikon files and some of the Gear to a point and i like Nikon for its service and back up, but things are changing, i feel the issue has undermined my confidence given the length, change and consequence of the issue if find quite telling.

Songs of praise when its goods the howls from hell when its not, i can see why Canon is waiting and taking its time with the R1............

Only an opinion