John Navitsky
Well-known member
but isn't that just an artifact [sic] of the shutter speed used in video?
Z9 Firmware 2.0: feedback on AF, RSF...
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pwaring
Well-known member
Is your 4 second assumption based on what you'd see under normal shooting? In that scenario then the images are being cleared out of the buffer as they're written to the card. The lossless compressed buffer (reported in number of shots left) seems to be about 21. So that's essentially 1 second of RAW at 20 fps and then pretty much no space to work properly once you're pressing the button.
As has been discussed though, I'd hope it is possible to do this for 0.3 seconds as RAW or something like that and it still be a very viable feature. Maybe we'll see that in future.
If that were the case slower shutter speeds in still mode would exhibit rolling shutter too.
It is
BTW, an even faster way is to hold the Focus Mode button while in C1 /2 and use the multi-select button to adjust right on the fly in the viewfinder, no need to go to the "I" menu.
Great tip! Much faster.
the remaining shot timer isnt very accurate it only jumps to 24 when you select jpeg but it will essentially shoot forever. In full raw with the right card the Z9 will shoot for 4 seconds at 20fps. It could be possible that the buffer is somehow BEFORE the images are processed and are dependent on the processing to reduce the file sizes enough to keep the backside of the buffer clear and flowing. In essence the buffer and pipeline speed was prioritized over size. If the processing comes after the buffer then yes only 20 around frames can fit in the buffer.
thelordofthelight
Well-known member
Yes, based on the normal shooting but i get your point regarding the r21 limitations which is where HE Raw formats can be handy.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
hmm, yah, i'm curious how they differ
I think when someone finally cracks a Z9 open and looks around they will find the internal architecture is radically different than most other mirrorless cameras. I think the buffer was moved to a new location in the data pipeline and gets bypassed entirely for video which is what keeps the camera cool while recording.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
i agree that they've done something fairly different. my gut is nikon bit the bullet and overhauled the architecture and i think that will provide a lot of benefit for them going forward. the geek in me wants to know the specifics. i wish camera makers were willing to give us a block system diagram
eft
Well-known member
Tried the pre-capture, just to feel like Tom Cruise in Minority Report. Z9+200-500mm 1/2500 at f/5.6. This was just a quick test and I should probably have used a narrower aperture to increase the depth of field. Still, better than just an empty twig and I think many will find it an attractive feature in similar circumstances. I sure hope Nikon adds support for RAW though.
pwaring
Well-known member
I had exactly the same thought when looking at that setting sheet. I had not settled quite on what to do with the record button. I was thinking of using it as an AF-mode selection button but I think I'll make it my RSF (Hold) button. It's just so easy to get to no matter how I'm holding the camera and lens and I think I'll use it quite a bit. The only downside is that there isn't one on the vertical grip so I'll need some kind of alternative. I'll probably leave the lens buttons doing it just for that reason.
Are you personally going to switch to jpeg shooting? I guess I was thinking of folks that currently shoot raw whether it would make them switch to get the precapture . Yes, a nice feature for those already committed to jpeg.
BillW
Well-known member
I shoot raw (or HE raw*) and I’d certainly prefer to be able to do that with precapture. I hope Nikon adds raw or HE raw* to precapture, even if that requires a few changes to how fast or how long precapture is.
I would not switch to jpeg generally. But I might switch in decent light in situations where precapture might be valuable (often for me a perched bird that I expect to take flight). While I haven’t tried it yet, I was thinking I’d liked to set up a recall shootings function custom button that would switch from my regular wildlife settings (including raw) and invoke precapture with C30 and jpegs (large fine*) only when I wanted precapture. I have updated my firmware today, but have not had a chance yet to see if this can be done.
Yeah, I guess I didn't think through the situations where it might be useful. Anything they give us we just want more. I can just picture Canon and Sony rubbing their hands together with an evil grin on their faces thinking about raw precapture.
sturek
New member
Has anyone else had any issues with the update? I've seen most people saying it takes 7-10 minutes...I'm coming up on 90 minutes and the status bar hasn't moved since the initial first blip. Called Nikon and they opened a ticket and said it's a big update and could take a while...seen other posts on FB where some people have pulled the battery and then tried again but I'm hoping there is another way beyond sending my Z9 in to the shop. Thought...Suggestions...?? Going to go take my dog for a walk and let it sit a while longer.
No issue on my end. I think you may have to wait for Nikon to get back to you, although the battery may die by then. They warn all over not to pull the plug during the update. I wish I had an answer, I'd probably try to wait as long as I could though. If the battery dies, charge and see if you can try again. I don't think I'd just pull it in case it resolves itself (I know, it's unlikely, but who knows?)Has anyone else had any issues with the update? I've seen most people saying it takes 7-10 minutes...I'm coming up on 90 minutes and the status bar hasn't moved since the initial first blip. Called Nikon and they opened a ticket and said it's a big update and could take a while...seen other posts on FB where some people have pulled the battery and then tried again but I'm hoping there is another way beyond sending my Z9 in to the shop. Thought...Suggestions...?? Going to go take my dog for a walk and let it sit a while longer.
sturek
New member
yeah that's my plan. I've never had an issue before with firmware updates but the Nikon rep I talked with said they have gotten several calls today with the same issue. I am curious how long the battery will last, it was about 90% when I started...and one of many things I've been impressed with on the Z9 is battery life. I'll pass on either what Nikon says....or what happened if I have to pull the battery and (hopefully) get to try again rather than sending a brick in to NPS repair.
I was out using the 2.0 firmware today and I wanted to pass this along...
It looks like the behavior of subject detection with the Wide AF areas has changed. Normally, when you have a wide AF area, if it's anywhere on a recognized subject, the camera will go for the body, face, or eye.
WIth that in mind, I tried the Custom Wide AF area down to a single point. When I pointed at a gull's face, subject detection easily found the eye. However, when I moved the AF area away from the face, it gave up the eye and it appeared subject detection simply allowed the Wide AF area to work as normal. When I've done that test in the past with the Wide (S or L) area, as long as I had pretty much any part of the bird under the AF area, it still went to the eye. Now, you have to have the eye either under the AF area of very close to it.
I thought maybe this was due to the size of the AF area so I payed with that. In every instance, when the eye was out of and just a bit away from the Wide AF area, the camera wouldn't keep on it anymore (sometimes it would go for the body if the body was under the AF area, as expected). I also tried this with the normal Wide (L) and (S) areas with the same results.
I tried this on a variety of targets and found the same thing happening over and over. It seems like they made a change to the way this works.
However, if that's the case, I think it was actually the right move. I've had all sorts of trouble with subject detection focusing on the wrong areas of the target even when I had the wide AF area where I wanted it. I think this will actually improve my overall keeper rate.
Anyhow, I wanted to pass this along and ask that if you have a chance, test and see what happens. I'd like to try to confirm what I'm experiencing.
It looks like the behavior of subject detection with the Wide AF areas has changed. Normally, when you have a wide AF area, if it's anywhere on a recognized subject, the camera will go for the body, face, or eye.
WIth that in mind, I tried the Custom Wide AF area down to a single point. When I pointed at a gull's face, subject detection easily found the eye. However, when I moved the AF area away from the face, it gave up the eye and it appeared subject detection simply allowed the Wide AF area to work as normal. When I've done that test in the past with the Wide (S or L) area, as long as I had pretty much any part of the bird under the AF area, it still went to the eye. Now, you have to have the eye either under the AF area of very close to it.
I thought maybe this was due to the size of the AF area so I payed with that. In every instance, when the eye was out of and just a bit away from the Wide AF area, the camera wouldn't keep on it anymore (sometimes it would go for the body if the body was under the AF area, as expected). I also tried this with the normal Wide (L) and (S) areas with the same results.
I tried this on a variety of targets and found the same thing happening over and over. It seems like they made a change to the way this works.
However, if that's the case, I think it was actually the right move. I've had all sorts of trouble with subject detection focusing on the wrong areas of the target even when I had the wide AF area where I wanted it. I think this will actually improve my overall keeper rate.
Anyhow, I wanted to pass this along and ask that if you have a chance, test and see what happens. I'd like to try to confirm what I'm experiencing.
Calson
Well-known member
Sports people in their uniforms or people photos for newspapers hardly need color fidelity or preservation of tonal range. Huge difference with a normal person's face or even the skin tones for a sea lion when shot with 8-bit JPG versus 12-bit RAW. I use such subjects when comparing the performance of NR apps to see which ones compress the color range as this is as important and often more important than a loss of detail.
It is also faster and much more accurate to change the white balance setting for an image file. Not a big deal with a shot of a hockey player but a very big deal with a bride and her bridesmaids dresses.
Calson
Well-known member
The Olympus E-M1 Mark III does this with RAW and can buffer up to 35 frames prior to capture to the memory card. There are functions like a doube resolution capture and a neutral density function with a filter that only work with JPG capture. Of course this camera sells for $1599 so a larger buffer is to be expected.
If the Z9 can shoot in RAW without delay for about 0.5s in normal shooting mode, I suspect Nikon could have made pre-capture RAW compatible and it would have been still be usable, despite the very limited buffer. After all, with pre-capture, we're usually mostly interested in the photos taken before the shutter button was pressed.
I think Nikon might have been concerned about further agravating the public opinion about the buffer of the Z9.
My Fujifilm X-T4 can shoot RAW in Pre-shot mode and I believe its buffer depth is even worse. I do miss a few sequences occasionally...
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GregWCIL
Member
Bill, you took the words right out of my mouth. Following replies you get.
I use the Fn 3 button for this. i Can reach it both in portrait and Landscape.
Same here.
arbitrage
Well-known member
My REC was being used for DX/FX switching as I'm a bit addicted to switching anytime I don't need the extra FOV.