Z9 Second Thoughts

[John Navitsky]

i don't think so. the el15c is 16Wh, the el18d is 36Wh. that's a pretty big difference and i can't help but think they pushed the el15c as much as they could. i expect the "iii" camera(s) to be a bit bigger with a new battery. ymmv

 

[O]

I think it depends a little on what he shoots, what lenses he already has and what's his biggest sources of disappointment currently.

If he only shoots stills of small birds with a 500pf and can't get close enough... the 600 f:4 with a 1.4TC would seem a priority.
If he shoots big birds in flight (osprey fishing, eagle fishing etc), big cats hunting in Africa and he does a ton of video... the Z9 might be the better upgrade path

All that said, things aren't usually that black and white, so I typically I would say "lead with glass" but the type of weight improvement and AF speed we have seen in Sony and Canon latest generation "big guns" is something that can't be ignored either and I would expect Nikon to match that when those lenses come out in Z mount. In which case, getting the Z mount camera first that can take advantage of those new lenses does make sense, and catch up on the 600mm in a few years when the new 600 is "broadly" available.

Thank you i will pass it on, he doesn't usually listen to me LOL, he only believes what he reads on the web of all things.............

 

[O]

Z9 has no crop factor Disappointing

WHY,

No doubt this will force many of us to buy the DX version camera................

It also makes the D850 just such more a versatile tool, it can stack to 200 images, has DX mode meaning you have a virtual D500 in the camera.
I often shoot the D850 in DX mode and tiff with a 1.4 tc, i get 60mb files...............at 9fps

Has different raw sizes and Tiff.......wont let go of this baby that's for certain.

If i take in mind this segment the heading SECOND THOUGHTS for a Z9 and ask what is it i need versus what i really want...........

So whats really the key benefits of the Z9........in the real world

Moving to mirror less....but why and is that a real benefit..........

Speed.........come on 10-14 fps is not enough

Focus lock on tracking

It may allow me to capture images using the speed i couldn't take before.......how dose that work in the real world for what i do.

Focus lock on the D6 for sports action is stickier than the A1, even Thom Hogan prefers his D6 over the A1 for sports action, Nuff Said, gee i wanted to use that LOL, ...........so in focus performance the Z9 is 3rd in line after the A1 R3, so given that its logical he would rather use the D6 for sports action over a Z9 ............??? fair assumption ?
Now that may be different for other people, who knows, but its worth thinking about.

Lots and lots of Video performance..........how much video have I used in the past 2 years, NIL, but its different of its for commercial application as video is making stills largely obsolete for internet based media.

How many shots have I missed and been broken hearted over to date with a d850 or D6, if you couldn't get the money shot with a D6 what says you will with the Z9.....oh yes it has the new focusing system that locks on and tracks pretty well but is not as sticky as the D6.........

So now with the Z9 A1 R3 are you simply more a recorder like everyone else who has a A1 Z9 R3..........you can now finally proudly throw away all your skill sets and stand shoulder to shoulder with your kids who will get the same quality technical shots as you if they use a Z9 or even a sub model, better still they will be smarter than most parents and grab the still from the 8k video as they only want to see it on Face Book, Instagram, their I phone, I pad, or with video make video clips on Tick Tock...........come to think of it they will complain about such a big heavy unit and use their I Phones LOL, OK i am going on with some nonsense but really where are things going really, your in Africa you see a brilliant opportunity to nail a Lion in action, you blast away.wow you have money shots a whole 6000 shots for the day you can spend hours wading through, now your in you guides vehicle heading back to the hotel and the little old lady from Japan sits next to you with her A1 she shows you her images, she has got exactly what you have and she only started photography a couple of months ago..............its like I phones, every one can take brilliant photos that's what makes them so popular.

At a recent surfing competition i was next to a photographic club group of ladies only .............the lady next to me had a 5dmk IV for all three lenses she had in her bag, i asked why so many bodies, oh the camera store said its risky changing lenses by the ocean............the other ladies had 1dx mk III and beyond, 100-400 150-600 Sigmas, nearly all Canon gear and had little to no clew of focus settings speeds for action, ............the one lady had an A1 he husband who runs the family Chinese restaurant set it up so she just has to point and shoot........using her 200-600 she didn't like as it was to big........
Lets face it these new mirror less cameras will make a lot of people very good documenters or recorders............and maybe allow many of them to become excellent in composition skills......great marketing blurb LOL
PS i am not pessimistic please just walking both sides of the line..........

I have a Z9 coming........like my corporate life in a new role, 1 month to research and understand it, one month to actually use it properly in the filed, one month the be delivering top results or it gets the slippery chair on Ebay

Happy days.

 

[FB101]

Z9 has no crop factor Disappointing

Directly from Nikon's website

Image Area (pixels)
FX-format
(L) 8,256 x 5,504
(M) 6,192 x 4,128
(S) 4,128 x 2,752

DX-format
(L) 5,408 x 3,600
(M) 4,048 x 2,696
(S) 2,704 x 1,800


Regarding the benefits of moving to a flagship mirrorless over shooting the D850? I guess you need to try it for yourself. Nothing we can write will convince you until you try. Whether that's right for your needs, I can't predict but it's a very different experience.

 

[O]

Directly from Nikon's website

Image Area (pixels)
FX-format
(L) 8,256 x 5,504
(M) 6,192 x 4,128
(S) 4,128 x 2,752

DX-format
(L) 5,408 x 3,600
(M) 4,048 x 2,696
(S) 2,704 x 1,800


Regarding the benefits of moving to a flagship mirrorless over shooting the D850? I guess you need to try it for yourself. Nothing we can write will convince you until you try. Whether that's right for your needs, I can't predict but it's a very different experience.

Brilliant thank you i looked the the B and H web site for the Z9 and specs and when it said

Crop Factor	None
Aspect Ratio	1:1, 3:2, 16:9

 

[O]

You could just cancel the Z9, keep your D850 and be like Frank Sinatra.

Love it

 

[FB101]

Brilliant thank you i looked the the B and H web site for the Z9 and specs and when it said

Crop Factor	None
Aspect Ratio	1:1, 3:2, 16:9

I think focus stacking is planned for the first firmware update but I can't seem to remember where I saw that so I may have dreamt it.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I had to change the 18c battery in my D6 during the day twice when I had the in camera GPS turned on it was power hungry. The new 18D battery coming with the Z9 is supposed be longer lastting and have more "oomph" will be curious to see what happens. I should be all batteried up since I ordered an extra 18d and currently have 3 18a's and 1 18c ... left over spares from selling D500 with grip and D6.

 

[Whiskeyman]

Now I'm trying to learn to shoot birds. Those little f#%@$ are fast!

They're sneaky, too!!

 

[Whiskeyman]

Well said. I would put forth pros use what they have and only upgrade when either 1.) their cameras fail or 2.) the latest and greatest has some feature which will make them more money or some feature which aides in shooting i.e. faster autofocus, eye auto focus, etc. which in turn leads to more keepers which in turn leads to more money. Hooch makes a very good point about having many impulse bought "tools" just laying around taking up space. I imagine the combined price of his useless stuff, bought on a whim, could finance or partially finance a superior piece of glass. His learned from experience witness is one we could all well take to heart. Of course, the manufacturers would not like us to be practical minded...........no money in that! JMO.

My digital camera journey started with the D90 (SHI-Still Have It), and that camera was followed by the D700 (SHI), the D7100 (my copy was a refurb and was a lemon), the D750 (SHI) and the D850 (SHI). Prior to the D90, I owned a N90, and some other Nikon film bodies. Every single one of the iterations gave me an added benefit that I thought was worthwhile at the time. The D90 got me out of film and processing (which on one particular trip cost me more than 2/3 the price of the D90.) The D700 got me full frame. The D7100 got me higher resolution but didn't work out and was traded in on a D750, which got me higher pixel density full frame on a budget. Then along came the D500 which got me improved speed in frame rates, even higher sensor resolution and better fit my wallet at the time. And earlier this year I got a "steal of a deal" on a friend's D850 Kit, which gave me a very high pixel density full frame camera. In hindsight, if I could make one change, I would have skipped the D500 and gone straight to the D850.

But now, next up is the Z9, which I'm banking on having better AF to help improve my keeper rate. (Every single camera update, save for the D7100, led me to a better shooting experience with an improved keeper rate.) When I look at how much I've spent on camera bodies, it does set me back a bit, but it has been ongoing for nearly 14 years. But as much as that is/was, it is less than what I'll likely spend on travel expenses on photography trips. So, it does make sense to upgrade equipment at times if doing so leads to a better photographic experience. When I started this thread, I was torn between the Z9 and a lens, but after reading this thread, and others here and elsewhere, I chose to press ahead with purchasing the Z9 because I think that will give me the most immediate and largest benefit to my shooting. Glass would be nice, as I've wanted the 200mm f2 for a long time, but I also would love a 600mm or 800mm lens, too; but it has to wait!

 

[RichF]

Regarding the benefits of moving to a flagship mirrorless over shooting the D850? I guess you need to try it for yourself. Nothing we can write will convince you until you try. Whether that's right for your needs, I can't predict but it's a very different experience.

5+ years ago I was shoot Canon and I had a 1Dx. Stupidly I borrowed the new 1Dx Mark 2 and suddenly felt $6000+ fly out of my wallet. When you try a better camera than you have, you know it and either want it and buy it or want it and can not afford it.

 

[Celticursa]

I’ll be happy to pay for your place in the queue of your local dealer for an D9.

 

[John Woodworth]

i don't think so. the el15c is 16Wh, the el18d is 36Wh. that's a pretty big difference and i can't help but think they pushed the el15c as much as they could. i expect the "iii" camera(s) to be a bit bigger with a new battery. ymmv

If you are responding to my post, I'd love to respond except neither one of us would know what we are talking about.

My assumption is based on Ricci positing that the battery life is comparable, or better than, the D6. So I am thinking that cutting video specs may bring acceptable stills performance for a "Z950".

But, who knows. Not you. Not me.

 

[Anjin San]

. I know for you weight and size is more desirable so hope Nikon brings out what works for you. From what I read the Z9 depending on how you use it and your settings will be power hungry.

Yeah..but batteries re a lot lighter than the grip…and I’ve never gone through a whole battery in a days shooting so carrying a spare…or two if needed…is a lot easier.

 

[Anjin San]

i don't think so. the el15c is 16Wh, the el18d is 36Wh. that's a pretty big difference and i can't help but think they pushed the el15c as much as they could. i expect the "iii" camera(s) to be a bit bigger with a new battery. ymmv

True..but if Ricci’s report of 15,000 shots in a day with 20% remaining is accurate…then you would need 2 batteries for a day…big deal. And I’ve never taken anything close to 15,000 shots in a day…I might have hit a thousand or 1,500 a time or two but no video and nowhere close to as many shots…and as I noted another battery is a lot lighter than an integral grip body…and smaller to boot. It’s a size and weight issue for me..
and I will gladly give up some of the Z9 features for it…15/23/60 FPS and no 8K video is plenty for most people.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Yeah..but batteries re a lot lighter than the grip…and I’ve never gone through a whole battery in a days shooting so carrying a spare…or two if needed…is a lot easier.

I am so paranoid that I carry at least one spare big battery in the field and had never needed it. The the day I did I had not carried one with me. For the first time I left the GPS on all day on the D6 and did not have a spare battery even in the car. So I went back to being paranoid and started carrying two extras and the next time it happened I had a spare This has only happened with the D6 and the GPS on.

You and my wife think alike she thinks the D500 without a grip and a 500 pf was to big and heavy She loves her Z50 and Tamron 100-400 or 18-400 and carries a couple of spare batteries and expects to change out at least once during the day ... works great for her

 

[Whiskeyman]

True..but if Ricci’s report of 15,000 shots in a day with 20% remaining is accurate…then you would need 2 batteries for a day…big deal. And I’ve never taken anything close to 15,000 shots in a day…I might have hit a thousand or 1,500 a time or two but no video and nowhere close to as many shots…and as I noted another battery is a lot lighter than an integral grip body…and smaller to boot. It’s a size and weight issue for me..
and I will gladly give up some of the Z9 features for it…15/23/60 FPS and no 8K video is plenty for most people.

Hopefully, Nikon has a camera that suits just these needs coming along sometime in the next two years, Neil. I think that a lot of people would join you in getting one if Nikon does.

As far as running out of juice with one battery, it happened to me a couple of times when I first got my D500. Fortunately, I already had a spare.

 

[Whiskeyman]

I am so paranoid that I carry at least one spare big battery in the field and had never needed it. The the day I did I had not carried one with me. For the first time I left the GPS on all day on the D6 and did not have a spare battery even in the car. So I went back to being paranoid and started carrying two extras and the next time it happened I had a spare This has only happened with the D6 and the GPS on.

You and my wife think alike she thinks the D500 without a grip and a 500 pf was to big and heavy She loves her Z50 and Tamron 100-400 or 18-400 and carries a couple of spare batteries and expects to change out at least once during the day ... works great for her

And extra memory cards... don't forget the extra memory cards!

 

[Ken Miracle]

And extra memory cards... don't forget the extra memory cards!

I used to carry more in the years of sketchy sd cards ... I had a supposedly high end high speed Pro Master sd card disintegrate in my hand and lost a whole shoot at a Sage Grouse Lek, Great Horned Owl and Golden Eagle nests ... from there on I used small GB cards and changed them frequently so if one crashed I did not loose the whole shoot. Then with CF, then XQD and now CF Express and two card slots I worry far less and use larger GB cards and shoot second slot as a fine jp back up to my Raw on my primary.

 

[RichF]

i’m not worried at all about running out of juice. Because I know if my battery goes dead I am almost guaranteed to see something awesome like the biggest bull elk ever or an amazing Eagle diving, or something else super cool….

we will always have the phone in our pocket ..

 

[Ken Miracle]

we will always have the phone in our pocket ..

You mean the one with the dead battery

 

[Whiskeyman]

I used to carry more in the years of sketchy sd cards ... I had a supposedly high end high speed Pro Master sd card disintegrate in my hand and lost a whole shoot at a Sage Grouse Lek, Great Horned Owl and Golden Eagle nests ... from there on I used small GB cards and changed them frequently so if one crashed I did not loose the whole shoot. Then with CF, then XQD and now CF Express and two card slots I worry far less and use larger GB cards and shoot second slot as a fine jp back up to my Raw on my primary.

I always carry spares in my bag because I once showed up for a marching band performance without any cards in my camera. Fortunately for me, that night there was another photographer working with me who had spares and I used a couple of hers. Since then, I've loaned a card or two to someone else.

 

[Ken Miracle]

I always carry spares in my bag because I once showed up for a marching band performance without any cards in my camera. Fortunately for me, that night there D

LOL ... My wife has a Z50 and after a 1.5 hour drive to our birding spot found out she had no card in her camera (single slot) and her card case was not in her bag. She found them when we got home sitting next to her battery charger with one of her spare batteries in it I was shooting my D6 that day but had my D850 along and the card case for it so a quick format of one of mine and her Z50 was ready for action.

 

[O]

we will always have the phone in our pocket ..

Ever gone on a flight interstate and realized you forgot your phone...............
The thing most noticed is how you feel something is really wrong and and how difficult things have become...its like you left home with out your wallet and you have this feeling of being helpless........and the alternatives are almost to beg for help LOL

Living in New York working i found the best teclo company to handle my phone needs, it was called the top draw company, yes battery out and phone left in the top draw of my dresser...for 2 years....it was amazing, as when i had it on me it would never stop ringing, and i was a slave to it, then i realized hey if its important they can leave a message or call the office and speak to my PA and when i get to the office i can deal with things........
I found i had more time got more done and was far more relaxed...this is in a working environment of course.
Go out for tthe day with out your phone and you may feel the strangest thing......will come over you LOL

 

[RichF]

Ever gone on a flight interstate and realized you forgot your phone...............
The thing most noticed is how you feel something is really wrong and and how difficult things have become...its like you left home with out your wallet and you have this feeling of being helpless........and the alternatives are almost to beg for help LOL

Living in New York working i found the best teclo company to handle my phone needs, it was called the top draw company, yes battery out and phone left in the top draw of my dresser...for 2 years....it was amazing, as when i had it on me it would never stop ringing, and i was a slave to it, then i realized hey if its important they can leave a message or call the office and speak to my PA and when i get to the office i can deal with things........
I found i had more time got more done and was far more relaxed...this is in a working environment of course.
Go out for tthe day with out your phone and you may feel the strangest thing......will come over you LOL

i have occasionally left my phone in the car when I have gone into a store and or taken a walk. Never for very long.