Z9 Firmware 3.0 Released

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Hi Folks, lets wait and see what Nikon have to say, my understanding is a small number of issues need addressing:

  1. A15 bug when A9 is set to anything but Non-Linear
  2. AF Hand Off Issue

It does seem that the above are a high priory for Nikon, and I believe they ate already looking into it. Alas we just need to be patient, the Z9 is a complex machine and occasionally things slip through the net.
 
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BarkingBeansCoffee said:
Also it seems as if the Fn1,2,3 buttons don't handoff to 3D and the camera is too new to me to know if that's how it was.
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It has been my experience that the "handoff" from one AF-Area Mode (i.e. WAs) to either 3D or AutoArea only works when the initial focus point is established via the shutter button. I have read that others do it while establishing focus from a different button that is configured for AF-Area Mode + AF-On, but I have tried it many times w/o success.

Prior to FW3, the handoff from the shutter-release to 3D on hte AF-On button was very reliable when used as noted in the manual excerpt below - "at least for me".

Based only on a few hours of shooting time with FW3, this behavior has been much less reliable than pre-FW3, again, "at least for me". YMMV.

Note from below (pg 605 in the Z9 Reference Manual): "This only applies if you change AF-area modes while focusing with the shutter-release button pressed halfway.
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PhilM said:
It has been my experience that the "handoff" from one AF-Area Mode (i.e. WAs) to either 3D or AutoArea only works when the initial focus point is established via the shutter button. I have read that others do it while establishing focus from a different button that is configured for AF-Area Mode + AF-On, but I have tried it many times w/o success.

Prior to FW3, the handoff from the shutter-release to 3D on hte AF-On button was very reliable when used as noted in the manual excerpt below - "at least for me".

Based only on a few hours of shooting time with FW3, this behavior has been much less reliable than pre-FW3, again, "at least for me". YMMV.

Note from below (pg 605 in the Z9 Reference Manual): "This only applies if you change AF-area modes while focusing with the shutter-release button pressed halfway.
View attachment 48808
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That’s interesting Phil. I did not catch that nuance in the Reference Manual. I’m fairly new to the Z9, in that I’ve been shooting it for about 2 months. I have mine setup similar to one of Steve’s permutations.

Shutter for release only
AF-ON for focus (BBAF) with my default AF mode to either Wide Area Large or Small
Subject Detection On and selected to animal
Fn1 and 3 buttons for 3D
Fn2 button for single point
Lens Fn button to toggle subject detection off

In this arrangement I’d focus on a subject, typically a raptor, Wide Area small or large depending on if the subject was in motion. This is with subject detection on. I would get the desired lock, and depress the Fn1 to go to 3D. The vast majority of occasions the focus point would hand off to 3D with no issue. When I had the desired image, I’d depress the shutter. Vast majority of images all in focus. I got these results with FW 2.1 and 3.0. The only thing I’ve seen with FW 3.0 is that I may pick up the focus lock a little earlier, but that’s very subjective.

I have shot BBAF for several years now with my DSLRs. It is comfortable for me. To be honest, I haven’t even tried going back to shutter focus. It’s a challenge enough learning what this camera will do without throwing another change into the mix. I may try it in the future, but not now.

I do recognize the issues that others are having, but for me, using this method seems to work for me. As always YMMV.
 
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Fishboy1952 said:
That’s interesting Phil. I did not catch that nuance in the Reference Manual. I’m fairly new to the Z9, in that I’ve been shooting it for about 2 months. I have mine setup similar to one of Steve’s permutations.

Shutter for release only
AF-ON for focus (BBAF) with my default AF mode to either Wide Area Large or Small
Subject Detection On and selected to animal
Fn1 and 3 buttons for 3D
Fn2 button for single point
Lens Fn button to toggle subject detection off

In this arrangement I’d focus on a subject, typically a raptor, Wide Area small or large depending on if the subject was in motion. This is with subject detection on. I would get the desired lock, and depress the Fn1 to go to 3D. The vast majority of occasions the focus point would hand off to 3D with no issue. When I had the desired image, I’d depress the shutter. Vast majority of images all in focus. I got these results with FW 2.1 and 3.0. The only thing I’ve seen with FW 3.0 is that I may pick up the focus lock a little earlier, but that’s very subjective.

I have shot BBAF for several years now with my DSLRs. It is comfortable for me. To be honest, I haven’t even tried going back to shutter focus. It’s a challenge enough learning what this camera will do without throwing another change into the mix. I may try it in the future, but not now.

I do recognize the issues that others are having, but for me, using this method seems to work for me. As always YMMV.
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That’s the same method I use almost exact - however in v3.0 the handoff to 3D does not occur and jumps around ONLY when subject is hard to detect or not locked on properly or subject is not an animal etc.. version 2.0 had none of the problems when 3d was pressed it would lock on ANY subject and track it.
 
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NicholasN said:
That’s the same method I use almost exact - however in v3.0 the handoff to 3D does not occur and jumps around ONLY when subject is hard to detect or not locked on properly or subject is not an animal etc.. version 2.0 had none of the problems when 3d was pressed it would lock on ANY subject and track it.
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Nicholas a third person today has told me that a FW update is on the way and he says that's coming from Nikon.
 
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PhilM said:
It has been my experience that the "handoff" from one AF-Area Mode (i.e. WAs) to either 3D or AutoArea only works when the initial focus point is established via the shutter button. I have read that others do it while establishing focus from a different button that is configured for AF-Area Mode + AF-On, but I have tried it many times w/o success.

Prior to FW3, the handoff from the shutter-release to 3D on hte AF-On button was very reliable when used as noted in the manual excerpt below - "at least for me".

Based only on a few hours of shooting time with FW3, this behavior has been much less reliable than pre-FW3, again, "at least for me". YMMV.

Note from below (pg 605 in the Z9 Reference Manual): "This only applies if you change AF-area modes while focusing with the shutter-release button pressed halfway.
View attachment 48808
Click to expand...

Nikon's explanation of the feature makes my brain hurt :unsure: Trying to ascertain whether or not how I have my buttons set falls in line with their cryptic wording in the manual.

From what I've experienced w/ my Z9:

- AF-ON set to Wide Area (S), shutter set to 3D = 3D works as it should, you put the box over a target, half-press shutter, and the camera tracks it solidly without issue. Both AF modes function perfectly regardless of which button I push first, or if I have the shutter half-pressed. This is how it acted in 2.11 as well, and how I've had my Z9 set up from the start, so I hadn't experienced the "bug" until I tried switching the AF assignments around:

- AF-ON set to 3D, shutter set to Wide Area (S) = 3D is wonky as hell, it won't track the initially selected subject, and instead randomly jumps all over the screen. Subject Detect on or off, doesn't change the behavior. It acts like this even if you don't touch the shutter button in any way. Funny thing though, if you set the shutter AF Mode to one of the Dynamics, 3D magically starts to work like it should.

So yeah, interesting things going on, curious to see how Nikon responds. I don't agree w/ the idea that Nikon "corrected" their algorithm and it's now working like it's supposed to, or maybe it is, I don't know. The bug/issue is that it's behaving differently depending on what button setup you have, so I think Nikon will correct that and make it consistent regardless of how your buttons are set. Hopefully it acts like my first example above, because #2 is unusable.
 
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MatthewK said:
Nikon's explanation of the feature makes my brain hurt :unsure: Trying to ascertain whether or not how I have my buttons set falls in line with their cryptic wording in the manual.

From what I've experienced w/ my Z9:

- AF-ON set to Wide Area (S), shutter set to 3D = 3D works as it should, you put the box over a target, half-press shutter, and the camera tracks it solidly without issue. Both AF modes function perfectly regardless of which button I push first, or if I have the shutter half-pressed. This is how it acted in 2.11 as well, and how I've had my Z9 set up from the start, so I hadn't experienced the "bug" until I tried switching the AF assignments around:

- AF-ON set to 3D, shutter set to Wide Area (S) = 3D is wonky as hell, it won't track the initially selected subject, and instead randomly jumps all over the screen. Subject Detect on or off, doesn't change the behavior. It acts like this even if you don't touch the shutter button in any way. Funny thing though, if you set the shutter AF Mode to one of the Dynamics, 3D magically starts to work like it should.

So yeah, interesting things going on, curious to see how Nikon responds. I don't agree w/ the idea that Nikon "corrected" their algorithm and it's now working like it's supposed to, or maybe it is, I don't know. The bug/issue is that it's behaving differently depending on what button setup you have, so I think Nikon will correct that and make it consistent regardless of how your buttons are set. Hopefully it acts like my first example above, because #2 is unusable.
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Set to focus with backbutton af-on only - 3D set to FN1 button. This is the scenario IF primary focus being single point/dynamic - 3D focus handoff works as it should. IF primary focus is on wide-l or wide-s or auto then 3D focus handoff is a jumping jack. Weird!
 
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Ad Astra said:
Hudson Henry looks to be OK with firmware 3.0, as one of the original advocates of hybrid focusing his comments are useful.

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To an extent, since a number of people have been told a FW correction is coming. It talks about the features but if you want to learn about them,
I think this is the best tutorial I have seen on 3.0 so far
 
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I strongly recommend all Z9 owners watch today’s Grays of Westminster live stream on YouTube where RICCI answers my questions on v3.0 AF changes and explains how 3D-tracking works on the Z9 and how this is different to how it worked on previous Nikon cameras AND yes Subject Detection should be enabled when using both AREA AF and 3D tracking OR use another AF solution.
 
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1 hour 20 minutes for 3D tracking discussion ^^^^

Around 37 minute mark of above video ^^^ they talk about the "bug" and Nikon's response.
 
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ajm057 said:
I strongly recommend all Z9 owners watch today’s Grays of Westminster live stream on YouTube where RICCI answers my questions on v3.0 AF changes and explains how 3D-tracking works on the Z9 and how this is different to how it worked on previous Nikon cameras AND yes Subject Detection should be enabled when using both AREA AF and 3D tracking OR use another AF solution.
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Ricci, spot the diplomat of note. It's entertaining to hear him navigate the future-Nikon-product interrogations :D
his reply about custom settings was no less tactful, working out the optimal solution for what the photographer seeks to do.... In this case with AF
 
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fcotterill said:
Lance, to best of my knowledge, this option is MIA.
RSF [Hold] is the only practical work around. I find this works best on Fn3, where it's more accessible.
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That's what I thought. However, some of the above posts are saying they are able to put subject detection assigned to a Fn button - Fishboy1952 (Doug) and Butlerkid (Karen). :unsure:
 
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Lance B said:
That's what I thought. However, some of the above posts are saying they are able to put subject detection assigned to a Fn button - Fishboy1952 (Doug) and Butlerkid (Karen). :unsure:
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Lance -- We got Ricci to acknowledge that as a Nikon Educator we would be best served if Nikon "actually" issued something that described how AF and Subject Detection actually works and he "agreed" to post a video that does the same, since he does not write books.

If you want to read my rant on the subject please follow the link (warning my language is moderated here - it is not in my own blog).

Far far too many are simply not listening to or reading the guidance that the likes Steve P or Thom Hogan have provided AND, sure, Nikon has added to the confusion by simply FAILING to publish anything on the AF changes other than 4 bullet points. The new supplemental firmware update guide they released with firmware v3.0 says NOTHING on the AF changes and how these may impact users.

My guess is that Nikon did not consider that anything they had done changed how users should use their Z9 and this is true -- there have been no changes in how to use Subject Detection with v3.0 -- it is just been improved. Interestingly the release guides for 2.0 and 2.1 were also silent on Z9 Subject detection - so we have to look in Thom Hogan's guides on the Z9 (all of them) to see that the Z9 came with a different approach to 3D-tracking and Subject Detection when it was launched.

If folk would listen to Ricci and not simply be offended when he states that users were AND I am paraphrasing "using their Z9 AF wrongly, but getting away with it before" -- he and others are providing guides on how to use the Z9 after v3.0 "more correctly" -- but as a lifetime shoot I say OK, but we also need to have alternatives and back-up options programmed into our bodies and fingers so we can adapt when we need to get the shot.

I wrote to Nikon/NPS demanding they issue updates/guidance on AF in the real world.

In the meantime -- unless you have very very very good reasons not to while using Areas-AF and 3D-tracking select detection for your type of subject AND use smaller, rather than larger Areas. Have single point and dynamic area options +AF-ON assigned to Fn buttons so you can switch AND learn/embed skills to acquire/track and adjust Af mode on the fly. Please don't die in the ditch of your own pride -- just use whatever works on the Z9 NOW -- not stay stuck in how things used to work.

Turning OFF subject Detection is the WRONG choice and not something I will be doing.
 
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I just want to be able to turn off subject detection when I don't need subject detection. I rarely if ever use 3D with or without subject detection, mainly just using the other area modes. However, there are occasions where, being able to turn it off, would be a better bet for just normal shooting, quickly, on the fly. It's not a pride thing at all, it's just that subject detection and being able to turn it off is there for a reason and as such should be doable with one press of a button, otherwise don't have the subject detection switchable at all. It's not generally a big deal as just switching to single point or whatever can generally give you the same result, but I also don't see the reason why it shouldn't be implemented to a single Fn button if I want.
 
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Lance B said:
I just want to be able to turn off subject detection when I don't need subject detection. I rarely if ever use 3D with or without subject detection, mainly just using the other area modes. However, there are occasions where, being able to turn it off, would be a better bet for just normal shooting, quickly, on the fly. It's not a pride thing at all, it's just that subject detection and being able to turn it off is there for a reason and as such should be doable with one press of a button, otherwise don't have the subject detection switchable at all. It's not generally a big deal as just switching to single point or whatever can generally give you the same result, but I also don't see the reason why it shouldn't be implemented to a single Fn button if I want.
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With 3D tracking on the Z9 I agree to keep it with subject recognition enabled. However I also use and rely on the toggle-Off choice in Custom Area modes with/without Subject Recognition. Sometimes, subject recognition struggles with a cryptic subject eg a bird in the proverbial bush.

( The inevitably is every Deep Learning algorithm, machine especially, exploiting pattern recognition will struggle meeting natural diversity (old news for any experienced taxonomist, including those of us with a lifetime of experience in respective biotic specialities).)

The improvement in stickiness of FW 3.0 is reassuring, and we can expect pattern recognition in the deep learning system of Nikon's autofocus to continue to improve. Their supercomputers are likely running 24\7 training source code to get better and better....
 
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Lance B said:
I just want to be able to turn off subject detection when I don't need subject detection. I rarely if ever use 3D with or without subject detection, mainly just using the other area modes. However, there are occasions where, being able to turn it off, would be a better bet for just normal shooting, quickly, on the fly. It's not a pride thing at all, it's just that subject detection and being able to turn it off is there for a reason and as such should be doable with one press of a button, otherwise don't have the subject detection switchable at all. It's not generally a big deal as just switching to single point or whatever can generally give you the same result, but I also don't see the reason why it shouldn't be implemented to a single Fn button if I want.
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RSF (Hold) - Subject detection on/off can be assigned to the lens button on some Nikon lenses. I now have that set on the DISP button. I believe you can only have one RSF setting per bank................ I don't use multiple banks.
 
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eft said:
1 hour 20 minutes for 3D tracking discussion ^^^^

Around 37 minute mark of above video ^^^ they talk about the "bug" and Nikon's response.
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Thanks @eft I am sending you a virtual coffee, as you saved me a lot of time. He did use the word "bug" not "bird", and people need to either go back to 2.11 or wait for 3.1 and modify their usage of the camera until then. There is no single right way to AF and flexibility is key.
 
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