Makes no sense to me.....if Subj Detect takes over the AF area mode.....you no longer have the "pure" AF area mode.....
Seems like a faulty set up to me.....NOT a problem with Nikon Z 9's.................
Z9 Firmware 3.0 Released
- Thread starter MartyD
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Seems like a faulty set up to me.....NOT a problem with Nikon Z 9's.................
It’s a very common set up. Animal detect is independent. This is A7 on Auto. Handoff from an AF mode to 3D. HOWEVER. You don’t need that to see this issue. Just set Af-ON to 3D AF-ON and point it at a static object. The focus will jump around.
Update and thank you for making me look twice !!!
Even though I seldom use the Disp button ... I decided to play around a little more with lens function buttons and set the Disp button back to cycle display so if I ever want to shoot with live view it will be simpler instead of having to go back in and change the settings for the Disp button back to cycle display.
Since I usually only set a focus distance once or twice an outing but switch to between fx and dx more frequently (had been using the i menu) I already had the LN 1 button set to save focus position and ergonomically for me on the Z800 I found it far easier to access the LN memory set button so I changed that to switch between fx and dx. Just went out and tested it on some doves and squirrels. It was definitely faster than the I menu.
Thank you for making me look twice !
I went to try out using the vertical mutli selector button for display cycling and it would not work ... then dawned on me I had to unlock the vertical controls for that to work and I keep that locked since I am still old fashioned and just turn the camera keeping my hand in place rather than using the vertical grip and it's controls. Been doing that since I had my D4s
So went back to using Disp button display cycling even though I seldom use it for that. Then set lens memory recall button to cycle fx and dx and use LN 1 to save focus position.
I just loaded the Mule Deer 3D after FW 3.0 upate test shot to the Wildlife Photo forum.
Mule Deer 3D test subject after FW 3.0
Mule Deer 3D test subject after FW 3.0
Just put this mule deer test shot in the Wildlife Photo forum. This one was in heavy shade and used wide area custom 5x3 on shutter. This was edited in Light Room Classic.
Mule Deer Test Shot Z9 w Z800pf After FW 3.0
Mule Deer Test Shot Z9 w Z800pf After FW 3.0
Test of Auto-area AF with subject recognition animal tracking on. Shutter focus. Z9 with Z800pf. Standard import size per Steves preset for this forum.
First shot is not cropped and was a long way off. Others as the Mallard got closer were cropped some with last shot almost directly over head but still about 75 yards high.
All in the 150 shot series were in good focus except for 2 that were not "keepers".
First shot is not cropped and was a long way off. Others as the Mallard got closer were cropped some with last shot almost directly over head but still about 75 yards high.
All in the 150 shot series were in good focus except for 2 that were not "keepers".
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jpgrove
Member
We need to wait for Nikon, while we can speculate and agree and disagree with each other, only Nikon can provide any answers, that will be supported by people like Steve, Thom H, Matt Granger etc, they will likely have more weight when contacting Nikon and likey know the best route into Nikon to help.
I do get the feeling that the software engineers have been working flat out to get this firmware done, and I speculate that maybe it would be released on a deadline rather than if it had been fully bug tested.
Theirs enough talk in nearly all the online forums to cause a big enough stir for Nikon to take note, I think we just need some patience, personally I don't think the YouTube videos add much to owner anxiety, but may help Nikon fully understand what's going on.
I do get the feeling that the software engineers have been working flat out to get this firmware done, and I speculate that maybe it would be released on a deadline rather than if it had been fully bug tested.
Theirs enough talk in nearly all the online forums to cause a big enough stir for Nikon to take note, I think we just need some patience, personally I don't think the YouTube videos add much to owner anxiety, but may help Nikon fully understand what's going on.
Alistair
Well-known member
How on earth did that fellow get his Z9 to not focus on the pigeon's eye?
The Z9 is a complex piece of technology. I can only assume that the changes in firmware 3 made the set up the person shooting the video used no longer a viable system. In my recent use of the Z9 I have changed my mind about the use of Back Button Focus. I found myself using it to establish focus. The camera was however quite capable of locating subjects and tracking them. I think it is mistake to assume that you can choose any combination of settings on the Z9 and expect the camera to just work.
Perhaps this should be an aim for camera designers in the future, but I am not sure it is going to happen on the Z9. It is not designed for that.
Perhaps this should be an aim for camera designers in the future, but I am not sure it is going to happen on the Z9. It is not designed for that.
uday592
Active member
After updating to firmware 3, I am finding that when I use single point AF and AF-ON (as BBAF) the focus point moves all over the viewfinder. Has anyone else noticed this.
fcotterill
Well-known member
I managed less than half of the video, It is unintelligible. I was hoping to see some logical layout and explanation and controls etc. Guy mumbling in the soundtrack sounds confused. I have yet to read a coherent explanation, as conflicting complaints are posted on 2 other forums and the Z9 fb page.
The 'hybrid' focusing method described by Thom Hogan here is one many of us have been using successfully on Nikon 's triumvirate over the past few years (ie since D5 and D500 were released early 2016) - and modified it to interleave activations of the Z9 Subject-Recognition and other AF Modes.
There are conflicting descriptions and reports of this so-called bug. I reset my Z9 to try and emulate any malfunctions first focusing with Wide-L then 3d, AutoAF etc, and vice versa. Not only AFOn on BBAF but also AFMode+AFon.
Z9 works as normal with v3.0 as with v2.11
It's kinda bizarre that this video is being posted and discussed, he seems more confused than some of us are or at least I have no idea what he's doing. Speaking for myself, my results are fine but I have an interest in what's going on is all. Hope some logical explanation will show up!
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uday592
Active member
Figured the issue. I assigned AF-ON to 3D and forgot to change it back to default.
This posts recaps the issue on the focus bug, or bird, and can be skipped after reading the intro if you don't use this method.
Intro:
The use scenario is as follows and if your Z9 doesn’t do it then either you have the magic setting or got lucky. The erratic focusing happens when Custom Control f2 is set to back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON and you have the shutter button set to also focus (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON") in any mode other than Dynamic. NOTE that all AF modes focused the same and worked like Dynamic in 2.1. So if you aren’t getting this you aren’t using this set up. The error is very prevalent with eye detect off and presents itself with eye detect on but no subject is found.
Some people have said it’s not relevant: What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or a standing elephant when you want to focus on the trunk or tusks and recompose? Or macro on a butterfly? There are lots of cases for this use.
Yes, there are alternatives like Thom Hogan uses. Ok, others were not using that and prefer this method. Why? It’s based on setting Focus Setting A7 Focus point persistence set to Auto. This is explained in the Z9 Sports setting supplemental guide. This is how one focus method is handed off to another. Using one of the AF modes to get an initial lock and then handing off to 3D to track the subject. This method means less effort to track the subject once the handoff is made.
Replication:
Here is an exact combination that causes this “bug” to appear in firmware 3.0 compared to all previous firmware, if you would like to test it out:
Testing scenario to clearly see the issue:
Both scenarios above worked exactly the same prior to 3.0.
In the video the user is attempting the handoff. Eye detect for whatever reason was not catching the pigeon eye and resulting in this behavior.
, and can be skipped after reading the intro if you don't use this method. Intro:
The use scenario is as follows and if your Z9 doesn’t do it then either you have the magic setting or got lucky. The erratic focusing happens when Custom Control f2 is set to back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON and you have the shutter button set to also focus (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON") in any mode other than Dynamic. NOTE that all AF modes focused the same and worked like Dynamic in 2.1. So if you aren’t getting this you aren’t using this set up. The error is very prevalent with eye detect off and presents itself with eye detect on but no subject is found.
Some people have said it’s not relevant: What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or a standing elephant when you want to focus on the trunk or tusks and recompose? Or macro on a butterfly? There are lots of cases for this use.
Yes, there are alternatives like Thom Hogan uses. Ok, others were not using that and prefer this method. Why? It’s based on setting Focus Setting A7 Focus point persistence set to Auto. This is explained in the Z9 Sports setting supplemental guide. This is how one focus method is handed off to another. Using one of the AF modes to get an initial lock and then handing off to 3D to track the subject. This method means less effort to track the subject once the handoff is made.
Replication:
Here is an exact combination that causes this “bug” to appear in firmware 3.0 compared to all previous firmware, if you would like to test it out:
- AF- Continuous
- Back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON (Custom Controls F2 shooting)
- AF activation set to Shutter/AF-ON (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON")
- Shutter: Modes Auto, Custom, Wide area boxes and to a lesser extent single causes the 3D to misbehave after 3.0 except Dynamic. Single point is fine if in the center but not when moved off center.
- Subject detection Off.
Testing scenario to clearly see the issue:
- Place an inanimate object on a table in front of you, and try to track it using the Back button AF-ON, do not press the shutter.
- See how the focus box erratically behaves. In 2.1 3D would instantly lock on in any AF mode.
- Now do the exact same scenario, but change your shutter to Dynamic (again, do not press the shutter). Now see how the box correctly behaves.
- You can try this with subject detection on and you will see if a subject is found the handoff works perfectly, but if not, you get the erratic behavior. I was using sunflowers in my test.
Both scenarios above worked exactly the same prior to 3.0.
In the video the user is attempting the handoff. Eye detect for whatever reason was not catching the pigeon eye and resulting in this behavior.
Please try again with the post I just made and see if it presents in the use scenario.
As to Thom's method it's great if your lens has a L-Fn button but many don't and you have to use an Fn button and some people don't prefer that. Maybe if banks are used it's easier, but there is still clearly a large group of impacted users. Many people also just simply want some sort of focus on a half press.
fcotterill
Well-known member
See comments below.This posts recaps the issue on the focus bug, or bird
Intro:
The use scenario is as follows and if your Z9 doesn’t do it then either you have the magic setting or got lucky. The erratic focusing happens when Custom Control f2 is set to back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON and you have the shutter button set to also focus (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON") in any mode other than Dynamic. NOTE that all AF modes focused the same and worked like Dynamic in 2.1. So if you aren’t getting this you aren’t using this set up. The error is very prevalent with eye detect off and presents itself with eye detect on but no subject is found.
Some people have said it’s not relevant: What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or a standing elephant when you want to focus on the trunk or tusks and recompose? Or macro on a butterfly? There are lots of cases for this use.
I set up my Z9 as per above, your request
With W-Large on shutter half press, my camera focused on a cream flower, Dietes grandiflora, against green leaves, with Subject-Detection OFF. And the 3d also focused with change in sensor colour. Subject-Detection OFF.
As I see this setup of a Pro camera with a AF mode sharing the Shutter release, it must be challenging to try and recompose the image without focusing. With hybrid BBAF, I have the choice of 3 or more AF modes at my fingertips, all independent of the shutter.
fcotterill
Well-known member
With a Hybrid BBAF configuration for landscapes and wildlife subjects, it is simple and reliable to focus using an AFOn+AFMode on the AF-On / Fn* buttons. Thus, finger off shutter, focus on the desired point (eg flower, part of an animal etc)This posts recaps the issue on the focus bug, or bird
Intro:
The use scenario is as follows and if your Z9 doesn’t do it then either you have the magic setting or got lucky. The erratic focusing happens when Custom Control f2 is set to back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON and you have the shutter button set to also focus (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON") in any mode other than Dynamic. NOTE that all AF modes focused the same and worked like Dynamic in 2.1. So if you aren’t getting this you aren’t using this set up. The error is very prevalent with eye detect off and presents itself with eye detect on but no subject is found.
Some people have said it’s not relevant: What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or a standing elephant when you want to focus on the trunk or tusks and recompose? Or macro on a butterfly? There are lots of cases for this use.
Reframe
Squeeze off shutter release [C: A6 = AF Only]
I understand this need, but BBAF - even better if 'Hybrid BBAF' - works very well, as like Thom H and many other photographers, I have been using it for years. Compared to many other cameras, there's more real estate on the Pro Nikons with the 3 Fn buttons front-right (and more). The Z9 now gives one many more Custom options than to assign controls on the Pro DSLRs, D6 included.
I have Fn1 = CA1 5*3 + AFOn; Fn2 = CA2 1*1 + AFOn, Fn3 = RSF [Hold] to toggle Subject-Recognition off, which is nifty as Fn2 then behaves as a single-point+AFOn.
It's quite fast to scroll to a different 3rd 'primary' AFmode on the front dial by pressing Red Record [as posted above, I find it helps with C:f6=On 'Release button to use dial'].
And I also set the topmultiselector = AutoAF+AFon (or Lens-Fn on telephotos).
Having a Lens Fn button is a bonus, but unnecessary for Hybrid BBAF, with a Z9 especially.
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I will be interested to know what others find. Your camera is one that doesn't have the bug. Many more do. Maybe it's one of your settings. You have explained the alternatives well and I will look into them.
Great points.
As @Steve says a camera focuses the same way no matter what button you use if the same AF method is assigned. As you indicate the complex options of the Z9 and a huge range of photography subjects and photographers means for some the ergonomics of one button over another works best for them and that can change with a FW update like this.
For birds I had tried using the AF-On programmed to 3D AFarea + AFon but had found it less effective than using the hand off after establishing focus with wide area custom 5x3 etc. on the shutter. Now with the improvements in FW 3.0 with Auto Area AF I will try using AF-ON programmed to Auto Area AF + AFon.
@fcotterill - hmmm with the Thom method is there actually a way to handoff from your Fn buttons to 3D tracking? I programmed on to WA Small and then programmed to L- Fn2 to 3D and there is no handoff. Maybe this is why the other method is preferred. Please let me know if you have a handoff and if so what settings?
EDIT - I think the only two buttons than handoff are the shutter and AF-ON. Also in this testing on an affected camera, 3D goes into this jumpy mode when the AF-ON button is used for focusing in any of the affected modes (all except Dynamic).
EDIT - I think the only two buttons than handoff are the shutter and AF-ON. Also in this testing on an affected camera, 3D goes into this jumpy mode when the AF-ON button is used for focusing in any of the affected modes (all except Dynamic).
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As I noted in other post I had tried this method in 2.1 but found with hand off the A7 focus persistence auto thing it was not effective for me.This posts recaps the issue on the focus bug, or bird
Intro:
The use scenario is as follows and if your Z9 doesn’t do it then either you have the magic setting or got lucky. The erratic focusing happens when Custom Control f2 is set to back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON and you have the shutter button set to also focus (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON") in any mode other than Dynamic. NOTE that all AF modes focused the same and worked like Dynamic in 2.1. So if you aren’t getting this you aren’t using this set up. The error is very prevalent with eye detect off and presents itself with eye detect on but no subject is found.
Some people have said it’s not relevant: What about landscape when you want to focus and recompose on a flower? Or a standing elephant when you want to focus on the trunk or tusks and recompose? Or macro on a butterfly? There are lots of cases for this use.
Yes, there are alternatives like Thom Hogan uses. Ok, others were not using that and prefer this method. Why? It’s based on setting Focus Setting A7 Focus point persistence set to Auto. This is explained in the Z9 Sports setting supplemental guide. This is how one focus method is handed off to another. Using one of the AF modes to get an initial lock and then handing off to 3D to track the subject. This method means less effort to track the subject once the handoff is made.
Replication:
Here is an exact combination that causes this “bug” to appear in firmware 3.0 compared to all previous firmware, if you would like to test it out:
- AF- Continuous
- Back button AF-ON: 3D AF-Area + AF-ON (Custom Controls F2 shooting)
- AF activation set to Shutter/AF-ON (Custom Focus setting A6- AF Activation - "Shutter/AF-ON")
- Shutter: Modes Auto, Custom, Wide area boxes and to a lesser extent single causes the 3D to misbehave after 3.0 except Dynamic. Single point is fine if in the center but not when moved off center.
- Subject detection Off.
Testing scenario to clearly see the issue:
- Place an inanimate object on a table in front of you, and try to track it using the Back button AF-ON, do not press the shutter.
- See how the focus box erratically behaves. In 2.1 3D would instantly lock on in any AF mode.
- Now do the exact same scenario, but change your shutter to Dynamic (again, do not press the shutter). Now see how the box correctly behaves.
- You can try this with subject detection on and you will see if a subject is found the handoff works perfectly, but if not, you get the erratic behavior. I was using sunflowers in my test.
Both scenarios above worked exactly the same prior to 3.0.
In the video the user is attempting the handoff. Eye detect for whatever reason was not catching the pigeon eye and resulting in this behavior.
I switched back to AF-On button to only switch to 3D AF but not focus. This button is pushed while shutter AF focus is engaged with wide area custom 5x3 either half pressed or shooting That worked in 2.1 and still works in 3.0.
After a year of using BBF in DSLR's I found I preferred to not use it, so I did not focus and recompose but moved my focal point and now with mirrorless that can be anywhere so even more reason for "me" to not use BBF even when not in one of subject recognition tracking modes.
Nextlife1
Active member
FWIW on the very rare occasion that I want to use the monitor for shooting I just pull out the bottom slightly and it immediately comes on. Frees up the Display button for other uses.
I just set this up on my Z9. On my camera the bug presents. Still a mystery for me and others. Did you ever do a reset as part of the upgrade?