macwalter
Active member
I agree 30mp is not enough but maybe for usual sports,events work where speed is everything in and out the door it makes sense. Maybe they can’t get the very high frame rates with a higher mp count sensor.
Canon R1 : Development Announcement
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If you ask Google, Canon is a 30 Billion dollar company while nikon is 3 billion. So literally 10 times bigger. I'm guessing they can make their flagship anything they so choose. For whatever reasons they have always made the flagship low resolution. I assume it is what a certain segment of the market has always been willing to pay $6 to $7 thousand for that kind of body.
EricKlees
Well-known member
But Canon's camera division is a sliver of that. Same with Nikon. Nikon is an optics company more than a camera company. Scopes, binoculars and mainly medical imaging equipment. Which is why Nikon was NEVER at risk of folding with 18 months of huge losses. That was a drop on the bucket to them and was about to just restructure a few things and was back to making a profit the following year
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The point someone was making was that Canon was unable to produce a high megapixel camera with a fast frame rate. I imagine that might be part of their decision making but their R and D is likely pretty robust since they are so big. Fewer megapixels have to write out quicker than more megapixels, but I'm not sure that is all of the reason why they keep the flagships low resolution. Certainly not appealing to those that might have to crop.
EricKlees
Well-known member
Not sure i buy that as they have a 20fps 45MP sensor in the R5. I doubt they have not been able to make any inroads over the last 3 years on their sensor tech and their processor performance. That just doesn't seem likely to me
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rangerider
Active member
That's what the R3 was built for. I'm not sure why they'd release two high-end sports cameras at the top of their line, unless they're just really wanting to focus on the genre. Yes, the 1 series was always the sports model but times have changed and the other manufacturers have "do-it-all" cameras at their flagship spot, including Nikon who also used to have the sports camera at the top. If this camera is 30MP, Canon will have two sports cameras and no "do-it-all" professionally built competitor for Sony or Nikon's flagships. The R5 is not in the same league of build. I suspect like many others that Canon was trying to build the "do-it-all" camera for their top end, as well, and released the R3 as their sports version, but they simply could not get the sensor tech where they needed to, which caused many delays.
EricKlees
Well-known member
That's why it's highly unlikely that it will be 30mp. If bet it's going to be 45mp stacked. The R5II may be 45mp but not stacked
EricKlees
Well-known member
wrong chat sorry
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rangerider
Active member
Trust me, I hope you're right. This is the deciding factor for me.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
this makes the most sense to me as well. if the r5ii is stacked, it’s not going to be able to compete with competitors in the45mp-ish range on price. it seems we’re likely going to see at least one more generation of non stacked sensors in the midrange for price and availability reasons
EricKlees
Well-known member
I agree and this make the Z8 with a 45mp stacked sensor for $3500-$3900 range all the more impressive
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rangerider
Active member
Pretty much all rumors we've seen to this point is that the R5ii is a stacked sensor, though, so this would be quite disappointing for all of those users expecting it.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
yah, and it’s possible of course.
but if you’re expecting an 45mp stacked r5ii and instead you get a 45mp stacked r1, isn’t that just the same?
EricKlees
Well-known member
Except for price. I'd expect Canon to price the R5II in the $4k-$4.5k range and the R1 in the $6.5k maybe even $7k range is they are going to have an R3II in the $5.5k-$6k range
ajrmd
Well-known member
And if they have remotely similar sensors, I suspect that Canon would apply the cripple hammer to the R5's FPS, buffer, AF, etc.
John Navitsky
Well-known member
considering the z8 is already in that price range, if nikon does a NON stacked z7iii, it’s going really stress that price point
O
Well-known member
I feel Canon knows exactly what it is doing especially with its R 1.
Sony is going slow with the A1 II ???
Nikon has filled the gap for a while with the Z8 on the back of the Z9 now growing grey whiskers and overdue for a revamp.
Nikon gave us serious grief for so long in the way they brought out Z9 in a disastrous way over a long painful period along with some serious QC issues, something that was a nightmare and hard to forget, many of us paid a huge price not just in $, some QC issues even flowed over into the Z8. Finally they seemed to get the Z9 doing more as claimed but gee it took long enough, Totally inexcusable, maybe not if your a copier of other peoples R and D not necessarily a creator of your own R and D.
The global camera market is soft, timing and positioning new models is more strategically important than ever before, wasting the R1, A1 II, Z9II, prematurely is costly therefore best saved for the right moment.
Ask your self why the Canon R1 behavior, is it that the R3 R5 series success has bought more time for Canon or dialing in new innovative technology.
The interim model Z8 is buying time for Nikon maybe for the arrival of the Z9 II long overdue which may well follow the A1 R1 ? more likely ? i mean is Nikon more of a copier in ways rather than spend money on R and D so much ?
Canon sports action pro photographers in my neighborhood that i have spoken with at events have all expressed being very happy with what they have and more focused if anything on glass FWIW.
Technology:
Is Ai needing more time on the tree before being picked and integrated into cameras, or is it Ai is still to dynamic with change at this point therefore needing more patience and understanding.
Are we seeing the dawn of 35mm as we know it reaching its use by date ? Fuji has the floor here as MF is seeming more as the direction its all going forward bringing higher bit rates, higher iso capability, higher resolution, more affordability of MF along with greater profits when considering the price of glass.
For my self 35mm is really out of date in today's world. I think we will see growth in MF and things on going with 35mm just for a while.
Stills being viewed on the internet is dictated by new generational change in people and platforms, internet platforms rule here, video is simply more engaging appealing and watched.
The camera industry is developing better focusing and tracking along with more processing power in the hybrid cameras now and more so going forward.
A feature to make stills from video will be an option not necessarily a main feature.
Is Canon's focus connectivity, streaming as and when footage or stills are taken, it has focusing well in hand, now file sizes and processing needs the road blocks removed ie: such as CF cards limitations as well as heat issues ?????
The market is moving up in power and resolution as well as sadly cost, how and when is the interesting part.
The global economy is slow, its logical to assume frequent newer flagship models being released on people not spending in volume is maybe a waste ? so maybe a more measured approach is warranted.
The dragging on for newer model releases seems to be not just Canon.
Only an opinion
Sony is going slow with the A1 II ???
Nikon has filled the gap for a while with the Z8 on the back of the Z9 now growing grey whiskers and overdue for a revamp.
Nikon gave us serious grief for so long in the way they brought out Z9 in a disastrous way over a long painful period along with some serious QC issues, something that was a nightmare and hard to forget, many of us paid a huge price not just in $, some QC issues even flowed over into the Z8. Finally they seemed to get the Z9 doing more as claimed but gee it took long enough, Totally inexcusable, maybe not if your a copier of other peoples R and D not necessarily a creator of your own R and D.
The global camera market is soft, timing and positioning new models is more strategically important than ever before, wasting the R1, A1 II, Z9II, prematurely is costly therefore best saved for the right moment.
Ask your self why the Canon R1 behavior, is it that the R3 R5 series success has bought more time for Canon or dialing in new innovative technology.
The interim model Z8 is buying time for Nikon maybe for the arrival of the Z9 II long overdue which may well follow the A1 R1 ? more likely ? i mean is Nikon more of a copier in ways rather than spend money on R and D so much ?
Canon sports action pro photographers in my neighborhood that i have spoken with at events have all expressed being very happy with what they have and more focused if anything on glass FWIW.
Technology:
Is Ai needing more time on the tree before being picked and integrated into cameras, or is it Ai is still to dynamic with change at this point therefore needing more patience and understanding.
Are we seeing the dawn of 35mm as we know it reaching its use by date ? Fuji has the floor here as MF is seeming more as the direction its all going forward bringing higher bit rates, higher iso capability, higher resolution, more affordability of MF along with greater profits when considering the price of glass.
For my self 35mm is really out of date in today's world. I think we will see growth in MF and things on going with 35mm just for a while.
Stills being viewed on the internet is dictated by new generational change in people and platforms, internet platforms rule here, video is simply more engaging appealing and watched.
The camera industry is developing better focusing and tracking along with more processing power in the hybrid cameras now and more so going forward.
A feature to make stills from video will be an option not necessarily a main feature.
Is Canon's focus connectivity, streaming as and when footage or stills are taken, it has focusing well in hand, now file sizes and processing needs the road blocks removed ie: such as CF cards limitations as well as heat issues ?????
The market is moving up in power and resolution as well as sadly cost, how and when is the interesting part.
The global economy is slow, its logical to assume frequent newer flagship models being released on people not spending in volume is maybe a waste ? so maybe a more measured approach is warranted.
The dragging on for newer model releases seems to be not just Canon.
Only an opinion
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John Navitsky
Well-known member
O, you lose me with words like “disastrous” 
the z8 is not a filler, it’s just nikon’s trickle down approach
new chips start in the high end, then they trickle it down to the lower and lower cameras. and then they put a new set of chips in the top end and the cycle starts over
the z8 is not a filler, it’s just nikon’s trickle down approach
new chips start in the high end, then they trickle it down to the lower and lower cameras. and then they put a new set of chips in the top end and the cycle starts over
EricKlees
Well-known member
fcotterill
Well-known member
Although Nikon Precision is the second largest manufacturer of stepper photolithography units for the semiconductor industry, its Imaging Division has also dominated turnover etc for over 2 decades. Imaging has been the top revenue source The Imaging Division is the largest of Nikon Corporation.
Unlike Canon, Nikon has a massive stake in cameras and related optics..... The latest report reveals the Imaging Division accounted for 33% of 2022 revenue, 2nd to 39.1% for Precision Equipment, which has had the larger since overtaking Imaging since 2020. However, Nikon's profitability has improved significantly since restructuring.
This timeline across 6+ decades with snapshots of how Nikon Corp has shifted emphasis on its core products, with restructuring etc:
O
Well-known member
OPPS yes i see what you referring to i have revamped it, sorry i type to fast sometimes.O, you lose me with words like “disastrous”
the z8 is not a filler, it’s just nikon’s trickle down approach
new chips start in the high end, then they trickle it down to the lower and lower cameras. and then they put a new set of chips in the top end and the cycle starts over
REVAMPED
Nikon gave us serious grief for so long in the way they brought out the Z9 in a disastrous way over a long painful period along with some serious QC issues, something that was a nightmare and hard to forget, many of us paid a huge price not just in $, some QC issues even flowed over into the Z8. Finally they seemed to get the Z9 doing more as claimed but gee it took long enough, Totally inexcusable, maybe not if your a copier of other peoples R and D and not necessarily a creator of your own R and D to save money.
Only an opinion
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EricKlees
Well-known member
I personally didn't have any issue with the Z9 at launch (i got mine in 2nd shipment Jan 13tg '22). I was able to get 85% or better hit rate on small fast birds from about a month after shooting it. The improvements from firmware updates were significant and FW 4.10 introducing the Bird SD was next level. In many ways surpassing Sony and Canon. With the Bird SD, my bif got treasure is easily in the 90-95% rate.
Nikon with the Z9 is far from a disappointment. In fact if you got a body from Sony or Canon, you'd not have gotten those FW updates and would have had to buy a new body to get the improvements and new features and they were free. If i recall Sony charged people to have the grids added via firmware, GRIDS?
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BlackRockArt
Well-known member
Men, I feel like the tone of discussion is going side ways.
Sony: why am I dragged into this convo?
Nikon: I ain't got nothin' with it.
Canon: hold my beer (
)
Mods will lock down the thread in 1`2`3....
Oliver
Sony: why am I dragged into this convo?
Nikon: I ain't got nothin' with it.
Canon: hold my beer (
)Mods will lock down the thread in 1`2`3....
Oliver
O
Well-known member
I feel the R1 will have the benefits of the proven R3 R5 field experience, the R3 R5 series has been very good, Canon's tracking is exceptional, collectively its a good mirror less D and A to extend.
As Nikon took the D850 D6 and made a Z9 with a twist of lime here and there. Sadly they went from DSLR to mirror less which caused a lot of head aches.
What i would like in the R1
Rolling shutter with out the loss of base ISO,
Higher resolution sensor,
More stacking,
Connectivity,
More Video processing power,
Higher frame rates,
New generation IBIS,
Optional Ai advanced focus performance,
Optional internal editing ie: crop adjust and send capability like in our phones using Snap seed,
Higher dynamic range option even 16 bit option with a switch back to 14, 12, 8 bit.
Twin card slots with cooler running lower cost cards.
Less weight
Less size
What i would like and what the R1 as a tool will be actually designed for is another thing LOL.
Pros seem happy with the R3 R5 series so the R1 one may well be a combination and some ?
Happy Days
Only an opinion.
As Nikon took the D850 D6 and made a Z9 with a twist of lime here and there. Sadly they went from DSLR to mirror less which caused a lot of head aches.
What i would like in the R1
Rolling shutter with out the loss of base ISO,
Higher resolution sensor,
More stacking,
Connectivity,
More Video processing power,
Higher frame rates,
New generation IBIS,
Optional Ai advanced focus performance,
Optional internal editing ie: crop adjust and send capability like in our phones using Snap seed,
Higher dynamic range option even 16 bit option with a switch back to 14, 12, 8 bit.
Twin card slots with cooler running lower cost cards.
Less weight
Less size
What i would like and what the R1 as a tool will be actually designed for is another thing LOL.
Pros seem happy with the R3 R5 series so the R1 one may well be a combination and some ?
Happy Days
Only an opinion.
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