Canon R1 : Development Announcement

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txstone said:
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Canon Confirms the EOS R3 Is Not a Flagship Camera

The Canon EOS R3 is one of the most technologically advanced cameras that Canon has produced. Improvements to the autofocus alone put the Canon EOS R3 ahead of almost every camera that Canon has ever produced. Despite this, Canon maintains that the EOS R3 is not a 1 series flagship camera. The...
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I have a slightly different take on some of the points here.
  1. If the R1 turns out to be 30 MP, does that mean it's limited to a Sports flagship? I've been reading about Nikon wildlife shooters using their D5's and D6's for years at 20.8 MP. 45 may be the current standard, but is 30 all that different?
  2. If the R5 II turns out to be 45 MP is it competing with the Z9 and the A1? To me, if it does come with a stacked sensor, it's competing with the Z8.
  3. Why wasn't the R3 the Canon mirrorless flagship? I remember hearing Canon make a distinction about the weather sealing for all environments at the time (as in attached).
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The only difficulty with this theory is that based on these specs, the R1 is functionally the R3mkii. Perhaps this is what the head of product development meant when he said that the R3 was not the flagship camera? https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-talks-eos-r3-and-confirms-that-it-is-not-the-flagship-mirrorless/. If the R1 is really the R3mkii, it is difficult to see how Nikon and Sony users would be compelled to migrate.
 
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John Navitsky said:
i think Eric has a valid point, but i think nikon is saying they think they can get a lot of the benefits a different way, and also network speeds are faster, esp. those at large sporting events so it's not as critical to have the most tiny file
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Oh i agree with that John. That's why i think Nikon for the foreseeable future has no interest in making a high end pro style APS-C body.

Today is not nearly as much of an issue uploading larger files
 
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People keep saying how this is like the other Canon pro cameras, low MP and made for sports shooters. But the problem with that is, that model is PAST. Sports shooters don't HAVE to use a camera's full resolution, they can dial it down and get a bigger buffer and faster frame rate in a lot of cases, and if you have a camera that has high MP AND high resolution, you can sell it to everyone, not just Sports Illustrated. I'd be surprised--IF the specs are true, which we don't know yet--if these specs as listed even got the majority of R3 users to switch bodies, much less Nikon or Sony switching systems. Canon had YEARS to work on this model. What the hell were they doing?
 
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ajrmd said:
The only difficulty with this theory is that based on these specs, the R1 is functionally the R3mkii. Perhaps this is what the head of product development meant when he said that the R3 was not the flagship camera? https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-talks-eos-r3-and-confirms-that-it-is-not-the-flagship-mirrorless/. If the R1 is really the R3mkii, it is difficult to see how Nikon and Sony users would be compelled to migrate.
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This is why back then and when the real specs are announced will confirm if it not, that the R3 was originally the R1 and renamed the R3 last minute with a low res 24mp sensor. If the R1 is a 30MP sensor that would confirm it for me this is just an R3 mkII.

I feel the R1 will be 45MP stacked sensor. The differentiator between the R1 and R5 mkaIi will be the R5 MKII may not be stacked
 
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rangerider said:
A low MP sports camera ain’t gonna cut it for the flagship these days. They should have learned that by now with the R1 mark I, which they called the R3. Rumors are this is only 30MP.
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Higher resolution will be great for a flagship camera, however most sports agencies / wire services only want images that are 5Mb or less -3000px on the long edge minimum.
 
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arbitrage said:
Good ol' Tony....can't even find the time to do a minute of research and find out those Adorama specs were just copied off of a 5 month old rumour..

It literally took me 2 mins yesterday to find that CR post with those same specs...word for word. Please no one click on that video and give that idiot more clicks.
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They gotta make a living from all those clicks ... this is a very crowded space.

The Canon 1x series has always been 18mp ~ 20mp bodies, the press release emphathies on the focus, noise redduction & subject recognition, so it's unlikely to be a high MP body; the first batch will go to all the majoy news agencies right away; joe & jill will get to play with it in 2025 perhaps.

Oliver
 
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RikWriter said:
IF the specs are true, which we don't know yet--
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RikWriter said:
Canon had YEARS to work on this model. What the hell were they doing?
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that’s why it seems unlikely they are true. the big challenges for canon in this space are the sensor and having a processing system fast enough to drive it

it doesn’t really make sense for them to make ANOTHER low mp stacked sensor

and if they are using a low mp stacked sensor, they already have it and processing power to drive it

the only thing that makes sense to me is they it is taking them time to do their version of a high mp sensor and matching processing pipeline
 
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Johan Schmidt said:
Higher resolution will be great for a flagship camera, however most sports agencies / wire services only want images that are 5Mb or less -3000px on the long edge minimum.
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and we have a solution for that
IMG_2902.jpeg
You can only see EXIF info for this image if you are logged in.
 
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  • Will Canon's R1 lay this problem to rest?
  • Does this happen with other 'high end' mirrorless cameras (global shutters excluded)?
Effect of Rolling Shutter
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  • Canon R5
  • electronic shutter
  • 1/2000 second
  • 20 frames per second
  • standard issue 'seagull' with tailwind
 
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David Berry said:
  • Will Canon's R1 lay this problem to rest?
  • Does this happen with other 'high end' mirrorless cameras (global shutters excluded)?
View attachment 89180
  • Canon R5
  • electronic shutter
  • 1/2000 second
  • 20 frames per second
  • standard issue 'seagull' with with tailwind
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Yes it should lay that to rest.
The fast readout of A1, Z9/Z8 and R3 already lay that to rest. Even the A9/A9II were fairly immune to that type of rolling shutter except on really fast pans.

The stacked sensors have tackled this since the 2017 A9. R5 is one of the fastest scanning non-stacked sensors but it is still many times slower than the stacked ones.

The R1 will of course have stacked sensor. I think the big question is whether the R5II will have a stacked sensor. Rumors say it does and I think it really needs to as it will be the main competition for the Z8/Z9 and A1. The R1 may be much more specialized and expensive....more competing against A9III for the sports market more than wildlife.
 
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arbitrage said:
Yes it should lay that to rest.
The fast readout of A1, Z9/Z8 and R3 already lay that to rest. Even the A9/A9II were fairly immune to that type of rolling shutter except on really fast pans.

The stacked sensors have tackled this since the 2017 A9. R5 is one of the fastest scanning non-stacked sensors but it is still many times slower than the stacked ones.

The R1 will of course have stacked sensor. I think the big question is whether the R5II will have a stacked sensor. Rumors say it does and I think it really needs to as it will be the main competition for the Z8/Z9 and A1. The R1 may be much more specialized and expensive....more competing against A9III for the sports market more than wildlife.
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Again, if the "rumors" hold true and the R1 is 30 MP or thereabouts, it's really the successor to the R3, i.e. R3mkII.

Perhaps the R5mkII will have a stacked sensor though I remain skeptical. If Canon were able to manufacture fast, high MP, stacked sensors, why wouldn't they put it in the R1? Additionally, according to the rumors, the R5mkII is purported to have DR improvements over the R5 and if that's true, the likelihood of it being a stacked sensor decreases. While I would hope that Canon has made in roads in producing high quality, high performing, high MP stacked sensors, the press releases do not provide a lot of confidence. In terms of real "innovation", I think Nikon (lenses) and Sony (sensors) are driving the market. Canon has been tripping over their "parts". o_O
 
While it is not that noticeable, there is an advantage with lower megapixels in image quaity. It's not just the output size, but the size of the photosites/pixels on the sensor that makes a small difference, for example in where the diffraction limit is reached. I agree that I'd rather have 45 megapixels, which is why the R5 is my choice. Not that I'll be spending $7k or whatever on a body. The R5 was steep enough.
 
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bleirer said:
While it is not that noticeable, there is an advantage with lower megapixels in image quaity. It's not just the output size, but the size of the photosites/pixels on the sensor that makes a small difference, for example in where the diffraction limit is reached. I agree that I'd rather have 45 megapixels, which is why the R5 is my choice. Not that I'll be spending $7k or whatever on a body. The R5 was steep enough.
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Absolutely! That's why the "H" sensor was so beloved as it was a beautiful compromise. With FF, the 30-45 MP seems to be a sweet spot, though for cropping, every MP matters. In fact, the R7 with it's 1 stop higher noise was fun to use because of its higher MP density. I've seen some nice crops from the a9iii, though it clearly has more noise than comparable bodies.
 
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If the rumored 30 MP DGO sensor is correct I for one would be thrilled to own the Canon R1 along with R5 Mk2. I rarely make prints larger than 8x10 and only need 7.2 MP for a 300 dpi print. 30 MP for me is enough. I do use a Nikon Z8 at 45 MP and that works as well.
 
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The truth is, nobody outside of Canon and probably a few Canon Ambassadors has a clue what the final product will be.
The "specs" folks are quoting from the Adorama site I seriously doubt would have come from Canon.
This one bullet point tells me everything I need to know regarding if it was a leaked spec or someone speculating or just using placeholder text: ""Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5".
There is no way any company or corporate copywriter would have written something disparaging about one of their own products, especially products they are still selling.

Canon would have probably said something like "best in class dynamic range" They would not have said it was "better" than current products. I spent about 10 years of my career writing copy for a corporate website and tend to take notice of these things.

Just my .02 worth.
 
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jeffnles1 said:
The truth is, nobody outside of Canon and probably a few Canon Ambassadors has a clue what the final product will be.
The "specs" folks are quoting from the Adorama site I seriously doubt would have come from Canon.
This one bullet point tells me everything I need to know regarding if it was a leaked spec or someone speculating or just using placeholder text: ""Enhanced dynamic range, better than EOS R3 and EOS R5".
There is no way any company or corporate copywriter would have written something disparaging about one of their own products, especially products they are still selling.

Canon would have probably said something like "best in class dynamic range" They would not have said it was "better" than current products. I spent about 10 years of my career writing copy for a corporate website and tend to take notice of these things.

Just my .02 worth.
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The specs were already proven to be a copy and paste from the Canon rumors site as a spec list from January. It was posted on page 4 or 5 of this thread
 
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Joseph Blake compares R1 and R3…
  • "I know that people are going to yell at me (Joe): This is all rumors!"
  • Joe is insistent that the "leaked specs" are to be taken seriously.
  • Don't shoot me (David); I'm just the messenger.
  • There's no way I'm saving my pennies for this camera, but I am interested in how Canon is going to differentiate between R1, R3 and R5ii.

 
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ajrmd said:
Is this an AI chip? They call it an "accelerator" and I figured this had more to do with AF processing and perhaps pre-capture? It is doubtful that they are releasing a 24-30 MP flagship body. Purportedly the R3 is staying and has an established market.
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The magic word these days. AI . I don't care for their lens lineup these days so not a biggie for me
 
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