Nikon Z8

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MrFotoFool said:
I will reveal my ignorance, but I honestly don't know what a stacked sensor is (vs a conventional sensor) or what the advantages are. Whatever they are, maybe that gives this more value? I must run in different circles than the rest of you, because not only would I never need more than 10fps, I don't know and have never personally known another photographer who needs that either.
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stacked sensor is a type of sensor that allows for the image to be read super fast. this in turn allows for your camera to omit the mechanical shutter. this in turn allows you to have blackout free shooting and improved subject detection/af because the camera always has a view of the scene.

you may indeed not need a stacked sensor if you don't have demanding af/subject detection/frame rate needs. if you don't need the faster frame rate, you may or may not want the secondary benefits of blackout free shooting, improved subject detection, improved af.

it seems that nikon has signaled that it is moving towards designs without shutters which means stacked sensors. however stacked sensors are new, thus expensive and nikon only has one in it's parts bin at the moment so this certainly makes it unclear if new cameras like the (likely) z6iii would have a stacked sensor or retain the traditional sensor for the next iteration.
 
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MrFotoFool said:
I will reveal my ignorance, but I honestly don't know what a stacked sensor is (vs a conventional sensor) or what the advantages are. Whatever they are, maybe that gives this more value? I must run in different circles than the rest of you, because not only would I never need more than 10fps, I don't know and have never personally known another photographer who needs that either.
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As Steve has said there are times where the high frame rate has helped capture the exact moment. More so than just the high frame rate, it allows for a blackout free evf shooting experience, more AF calculations per second, silent shooting in electronic shutter, no rolling shutter in video or stills. There are many benefits and a few cons.
 
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A stacked sensor has the processing and associated memory on the same chip, underneath the "pixels" themselves.
That speeds up the read and processing time which allows black-out free shooting (basically you see as near real time as possible with no interuptions... which makes tracking moving subjects very easy) and very fast AF with subject detection.

An example where more than 10 fps are necesary:
Eurasian Bee-eaters try to steal insects from eachother while in flight... this leads to a certain "dance in the sky" look that can be stunning.
While I have been able to get the shot on ocassions, it lasts only a fraction of a second and with the 10fps on a D500 you get 1, maybe 2 frames and you need to be very lucky to catch the contact moment and to not have a wing covering the subjects. A 20-30 fps camera would mean more chances to get that decisive moment).
 
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Thanks for replies. Though I primarily use SLR (Nikon D850), I have a Sony A74 that I use with the 200-600. I don't recall the blackout while shooting; since I rarely do action I guess I just don't notice it? Or maybe I am so used to SLR blackout that I mentally ignore it?
 
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MrFotoFool said:
Thanks for replies. Though I primarily use SLR (Nikon D850), I have a Sony A74 that I use with the 200-600. I don't recall the blackout while shooting; since I rarely do action I guess I just don't notice it? Or maybe I am so used to SLR blackout that I mentally ignore it?
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i'm sure we're used to the blackout because that's just the way it is when you have a mirror flapping up and down. and that's just what we had for all these decades.

how much it is a practical issue for YOU with depend on both what you are shooting (obviously if your subject isn't moving much, it's not much of a problem) and your personal sensitivity (some people it bothers a lot, some not at all).

however, keep in mind the blackout DOES impact that camera even if it doesn't affect you. when the mirror is up, the camera's AF system is blind. in slow moving things this isn't an issue, but as things speed up, or if they are erratic, it does impact how well the camera can af.

that said, if it's not a problem for you and what you shoot, it's not a problem. period.
 
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Krümelkraft said:
By the way, we were joking about the Z8 to be announced just one day after the 30 days return period of our new mirrorless cameras finished.
I just want to announce that the 30 days return period for my Z9 expires on May, 6th ;)
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If you seriously would prefer a Z9 in a smaller body then I'd consider just returning the Z9 and if the Z8 isn't that then purchase another. There is no wait to acquire a Z9 anymore. There will also be lots flooded onto the used market if Z8 is a mini-Z9 without compromise driving used prices down.
 
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arbitrage said:
There will also be lots flooded onto the used market if Z8 is a mini-Z9 without compromise driving used prices down.
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you think? i don't see it. i can't see a lot of folks SELLING their z9 to get a slightly smaller version of the z9. once you already have a z9, it seems like simply an optimization to have a slightly smaller one.

otoh, i can totally see folks dumping their z6/z6ii/z7/z7ii cameras to pick up a slightly smaller z9. or their dslr for that matter.

i can also see a number of folks who might have been dragging their feet to pick up or upgrade a backup camera. that is to say, the z6ii/z7ii wasn't quite enough camera, but they really didn't want to go full in on another z9.

that said, i'm still not convinced the "a slightly smaller z9" rumor is likely to be true or not. it seems like the rumor sites are thinking it's true, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me and their track record isn't that great.

otoh, if slightly smaller z9 was also a lower mp (but stacked sensor) camera, i can see that making sense.
 
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John Navitsky said:
you think? i don't see it. i can't see a lot of folks SELLING their z9 to get a slightly smaller version of the z9. once you already have a z9, it seems like simply an optimization to have a slightly smaller one.

otoh, i can totally see folks dumping their z6/z6ii/z7/z7ii cameras to pick up a slightly smaller z9. or their dslr for that matter.

i can also see a number of folks who might have been dragging their feet to pick up or upgrade a backup camera. that is to say, the z6ii/z7ii wasn't quite enough camera, but they really didn't want to go full in on another z9.

that said, i'm still not convinced the "a slightly smaller z9" rumor is likely to be true or not. it seems like the rumor sites are thinking it's true, but it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me and their track record isn't that great.

otoh, if slightly smaller z9 was also a lower mp (but stacked sensor) camera, i can see that making sense.
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Not sure I'm following you on your last statement, John - ..'smaller Z9 with also a lower mp (but stacked sensor)..' The Z8 rumor set includes two sensors, Z9 at 45mp and 61mp.. Are you thinking smaller than 45, or smaller than 61?

If, as the current rumors suggest, the sensor is the 45mp, stacked Z9 sensor, that seems very adequate for a small Z9 to me. I would value the fast sensor readout of the stacked sensor more that the ultra resolution of a 61mp sensor - if I was in the market for a Z8. But, the price is also rumored to be fairly high, at least in comparison to the Sony a7R V.
 
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Lets look at the market Nikon already has and what is available to them.

1-Nikon already has the professional sports and widlife market. (Those who want the subject isolation that comes with long, fast glass and a full frame stacked sensor, full bodied camera.)
2-Nikon cannot get the "tourist" market that someone mentioned. That has been lost to dedicated cameras in terms of both stills and video.

What is left?
1-A professional backup camera. If the Z-8 is a "mini" Z-9 I suspect that ultimately Nikon will sell a Z-8 to every professional who hasn't yet purchased a second Z-9. That is a nice market but won't sell additional lenses
2-The enthusiast wildlife crowd. (The photographers who pay good money to go on trips hosted by professional wildlife photographers.) Now the semi-professional and wantabe portion of that crowd will typically purchase a professional rig but could easily choose a "mini" Z-9. However, the retired enthusiast will likely adopt a lighter and more flexible configuration, a Sony A-1/200-600 or a Canon R5/100-500 for example, or even a cropped sensor like a Canon R-7, Fuji X-h2s or OM Systems OM-1. That crowd really needs a zoom and Nikon really doesn't have an appropriate one.

Tom
 
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I'm very surprised at what I've been reading that the Z8 is going to be a small form of the Z9. I don't understand how that makes any marketing sense since who would then buy a Z9? Everything I've read seems to indicate that the sensor, processor, AF capabilities, video capabilities are the same. So what's the difference other than body size and weight. I guess Nikon would argue the Z9 is more robust and the Z8 would probably have smaller batteries, but is that going to justify the difference in price. Anyway, we still don't know the price yet and who knows, maybe Nikon still has a rabbit to pull out.
 
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Tim Karels said:
I'm very surprised at what I've been reading that the Z8 is going to be a small form of the Z9. I don't understand how that makes any marketing sense since who would then buy a Z9? Everything I've read seems to indicate that the sensor, processor, AF capabilities, video capabilities are the same. So what's the difference other than body size and weight. I guess Nikon would argue the Z9 is more robust and the Z8 would probably have smaller batteries, but is that going to justify the difference in price. Anyway, we still don't know the price yet and who knows, maybe Nikon still has a rabbit to pull out.
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We dont know anything. But a gripless Z9 that doesn't overheat is going right against the A1 and and R5, aka the competition. They're not thinking "how do we convert 850 users," they're thinking "how do we get pros who left back."
 
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I need a second “backup” camera to my z9 to leave on my 70-200, but have been holding off buying a second z9, hoping for a z8 that would give me a similar backup, full featured, but smaller form factor to pick when hiking. So, for me, the rumored configuration would be a home run.
 
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txstone said:
Not sure I'm following you on your last statement, John - ..'smaller Z9 with also a lower mp (but stacked sensor)..' The Z8 rumor set includes two sensors, Z9 at 45mp and 61mp.. Are you thinking smaller than 45, or smaller than 61?

If, as the current rumors suggest, the sensor is the 45mp, stacked Z9 sensor, that seems very adequate for a small Z9 to me. I would value the fast sensor readout of the stacked sensor more that the ultra resolution of a 61mp sensor - if I was in the market for a Z8. But, the price is also rumored to be fairly high, at least in comparison to the Sony a7R V.
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i meant smaller than 45mp. something like the d6 or z6ii.
 
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The Z8 is so yesterday..... YAWN..... I’m waiting for the Z10..... given all the advice, requests and suggestions around the Z8, and the raft of complaints and suggestion that seem to accompany any new product, it can’t help be better again
 
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Something Big is coming!
I just received an email from Nikon Canada about this big event launch on the 10th of May, 8 AM ET


Error | Nikon USA

Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!
en.nikon.ca en.nikon.ca
utm_source=MKT&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=countdown-en_CA-4-26-2023&utm_content=img&utm_term=Hero&ET_CID=4707991&ET_RID=909480304
 
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Activert said:
Something Big is coming!
I just received an email from Nikon Canada about this big event launch on the 10th of May, 8 AM ET


Error | Nikon USA

Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!
en.nikon.ca en.nikon.ca
utm_source=MKT&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=countdown-en_CA-4-26-2023&utm_content=img&utm_term=Hero&ET_CID=4707991&ET_RID=909480304
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ditto.
 
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arbitrage said:
There will also be lots flooded onto the used market if Z8 is a mini-Z9 without compromise driving used prices down.
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I think a bunch of Z9 users will switch to a Z8 for the smaller package if the camera is otherwise identical. "If" is the big question!

If I were to speculate, Nikon managed some impressive video features with the Z9, and they made a lot of noise about "no overheating". With a smaller body, there's less heat sink in the Z8, and obviously a smaller battery.

I'm going to speculate that the Z8 might be the same as the Z9, but with lesser battery life and some of the top-end video features removed. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the pre-capture features were affected as well.

Personally, I'll continue to use my Z9 and wait a generation or two. This camera can already do more than I need.
 
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Thom Hogan said:
...Those Nikon legacy body owners with film SLRs and DSLRs in their gear closet aren’t spring chickens. At some point they either jump ship because Nikon doesn’t offer what they want, or they simply die off with what they had...
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Thom must be reading forum posts here on BCG :rolleyes:
 
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arbitrage said:
If you seriously would prefer a Z9 in a smaller body then I'd consider just returning the Z9 and if the Z8 isn't that then purchase another. There is no wait to acquire a Z9 anymore. There will also be lots flooded onto the used market if Z8 is a mini-Z9 without compromise driving used prices down.
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The main reason to wait for a Z8 for me would have been the money saving. Since I got my Z9 with 10% off, I am happy and probably not interested anymore.
 
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Chris K said:
I think a bunch of Z9 users will switch to a Z8 for the smaller package if the camera is otherwise identical...
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They may ADD a Z8 as a second or third body, but I doubt they will SWITCH in the sense of getting rid of their Z9. A lot of users like the feel of a gripped body and they will not replace it with a non-gripped body, regardless of specs.
 
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In the end of the video from Ricci linked above (post 96) he makes an interesting observation. The teaser has the line Are You Ready? repeated on top of itself in a descending fashion. If you look closely the very last line has the ending question mark replaced with the numeral 8.
 
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