Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

[JerryF]

Yes the 20FPS limitation is not a Nikon thing. Its everyone's problem that uses higher MP sensors. Even the A1. The fastest cards available today simply are not fast enough to handle the data rate required without compression.

Here is something I posted on Ken Wheelers YT ridiculous rant about the Z9.

" A little simple math will help to put some perspective on things here I think. First I used my D850 which has the same size sensor as the Z9 to create 3 files of the same generic scene. An uncompressed RAW used 95,895KB, a lossless compressed RAW used 56,133KB and a lossy compressed RAW used 49,837KB. Assuming you are shooting at 20FPS this equates to 1.917GB/s for uncompressed raw. Which exceeds by a wide margin the fastest CFE card available which are about 1.5GB/s. So basically no camera on earth could continuously shoot at that rate as it is a physical impossibility with the cards available. Using Nikon's lossless compressed method (assuming the Z9 uses the same lossless compression algorithm as all other Nikons) the rate would be 1.122GB/s assuming NO cpu time required for the compression and NO filesystem overhead writing to the card. So it would be completely understandable that this could hit the limit of the cards performance when the overhead is added. This would explain why Nikon has two new compression methods. They had to develop them to allow saving at a rate that current CFE cards could handle. My guess is that the medium compression mode minimally effects the image quality but I won't know that for sure until I get my hands on one. These are simply physical limits that can't be solved by other companies like Canon and Sony either. "

My pre-order for the Z9 is staying right where it is for now.

 

[Gary Shackelford]

Regarding credit card charges on preorders, even if you order a Z9 from a big box vendor that does not run the charge until the product is shipped (Adorama, B&H, etc.), your card will be charged immediately if you choose to pay via PayPal. You should run the charge directly through the seller in order to defer the charge until the shipping date.

 

[JerryF]

Just a couple things I would like answered about the Z9 that I have not been able to confirm. If anyone knows for sure please reply here.

1. Ricci says there is no LP filter on the Z9. There is a glass cover with two types of coating but no LP filter. I trust him more than any other reviewer but its not officially in the specs shown so far that I can find.
2. I would like to know or see some example of the difference of how much do I lose in the extended compression RAW format. As far as I can tell its the full resolution RAW in any case but again I can't confirm this.
3. Then there is the viewfinder refresh rate. I have seen a Nikon employee say it is 120Hz on video but most reviewers say it is 60Hz. Wonder who is correct? The resolution seems OK but not stellar as it just matches the current Z7's.

 

[Hatch1921]

 

[fcotterill]

Why post this nonsense? Unless you are tring to attract attention to the channel, perhaps because it has been flamed on FM and dpr etc, and there is a long history why this brand basher has been banned there and from Nikon Rumors

https://www.truetoad.com/Blog/bad-youtube-photography-channels

http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018...rust-youtube-channels-like-tony-northrup.html

http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/08/downfalls-of-the-angry-photographer-epic-fail.html

http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2020/09/fred-miranda-shares-angry-photographer-garbage.html

Steve, Ricci talks about experiencing considerable difference in loading speed (and card heating!) between CFE cards.

I was thinking a lot whether to post this link or not... but here it is... Especialy because he did not have a camera in hands.

If you can get past by the mean tone and the rant (I know that many can't),
it might be that he is correct about some things and why the buffer performance (in large/lossless RAW)is not as expected...

Hopefully High Efficiency RAW would be almost the same quality... In that case this would be a non issue...

 

[Anjin San]

Whichever way one looks at it, Z9 has good enough AF. Will only get better with firmware updates.

It is about getting good lenses now.

I think Nikon can look at making Z8 with the following specs

Develop a new 33 pixel stacked sensor.
1) Same AF & expeed 7 chip as Z9
2) No AA filter
3) Improved DR & ISO performance compared to Z9 due to lower mega pixels
4) 4k 120 FPS 10 bit internal
5) No need for 8k
6) 12 FPS at lossless compressed raw
6) Price it at 3,500 USD.

This will be more affordable & will sell more.

I would buy that…or a Z7III if that’s what they call it. While we might see some improved firmware for the 7II…it’s pretty obvious that the stacked sensor, Expeed 7, and better EVF will be necessary to get Z9 AF and FPS. I could be happy with less than 45MP in the 7II if I got better AF, animal eye a la Z9, and would be happy with 15 FPS if I needed to. Not interested in the Z9…part is cost but mostly because I don’t want or need a built in grip as I shoot maybe 0.01% of my shots in portrait…the size and weight are a non starter while the price is just an impediment even though I could easily afford one. I don’t do video much…and iPhone video is more than good enough, particularly with ProRES in the new one…so idk I don’t care about either.

 

[ccyeung]

20 FPS is fine with me. I'm on the list with two vendors but not making a final decision until I see some more hands-on reviews.

Anyone venture a guess whether the old FTZ will fit at all with the Z9 or will I need to buy yet another? (I've already got two original FTZs.) Since I'd be using the Z9 primarily with the 500PF or the 500 F4E. I'd hate to have to buy the new FTZ right away.

It will work but it will be very awkward when shooting vertically.

 

[ccyeung]

Any idea when first shipments will be?

Dec 15th according to B&H.

 

[markymark]

I thought it would be a good idea to put everything about the Z9 into one thread with the official announcement. We'll start with the Live Stream video:

I'll update this post with the specs as we go


View attachment 26646

Main specs:

Price $5499 (US)

Sensor - Stacked 45.7 MP, ISO 64-26,600 (120 cycles per second)

Autofocus - 493 points. Eye detection for people, dog, cat, bird, car, motorcycle, bicycle, train plane (AF to EV-6.5. "starlight mode" to -8.5 EV)
AF Areas - pinpoint, single point, Wide (S & L), Dynamic (S, M, L - new) 3D , subject tracking,

Frame rate- 20 FPS at full resolution (RAW). 30 FPS (JPEG full res) 120FPS (11MP JPEG)

Storage- CF Express B, XQD

Video- 8K UHD 24p or 30p, 4K 120p

Buffer - 1000 frames at full res, 20 FPS using the new high efficiency RAW compressed format

Shutter - No mechanical shutter, minimal rolling shutter, speed to 1/32,000th

Viewfinder - No frame dropping, 3690K dot, brightest in industry at the moment

All specs / Nikon page:

Nikon | Shop & Explore Cameras, Lenses, and Accessories

Shop the latest mirrorless & DSLR cameras and NIKKOR lenses from the official Nikon eCommerce site. Explore our innovations and photo equipment!

www.nikonusa.com

I think I’m right in saying that the high efficiency RAW compressed file you get at with 20 FPS is a smaller file, but do you lose much detail/ information with that smaller file?

 

[DavidT]

It is unfortunate he didn't shoot full sized lossless compressed raw. But if you take that with other references, I think we're seeing a growing confirmation that card speed matters.

It’s funny they won’t use Sony cards which if I recall are some of the fastest. I get it Nikon ambassadors won’t use Canon printers either. But for the rest of us we have more choices in fast cards than Nikon or their ambassadors will mention.

 

[Ad Astra]

It’s funny they won’t use Sony cards which if I recall are some of the fastest. I get it Nikon ambassadors won’t use Canon printers either. But for the rest of us we have more choices in fast cards than Nikon or their ambassadors will mention.

It is sustained write speed that is important, Sony cards are good at initial burst but poor for sustained writes. There are much better CFExpress cards available that maintain a sustained write speed.

 

[jmurthy]

My initial trepidation for the frame rates in lossless compressed - per the nikon usa video by Marc , they tout high efficiency RAW as being “almost” as good as actual raw at 45MP with “Z6 and D780” quality. I wonder why no one actually did an honest test with buffer size in all three raw formats for the initial release.. nikon would have had more credibility as being honest about the current state and people would have still stayed patient for them ( we have for a long time ) to improve the buffer or at least prove that the high efficiency raw images are as good a quality as lossless compressed with NX studio.
With High efficiency RAW i am hoping for a M1 like moment in apple history which basically turned the concept of traditional RAM on its head. (relevant portion of the video starts around 14:27mins. )

 

[Whiskeyman]

Alright…now release Nikon Z90. Same specs and form factor at a $2,500 price tag.

The Z9 price is great but still out of reach for some.

So,... you want the same camera with a different name at a $3k discount? NGH!

 

[RandomNumbers]

Regarding high-FPS shooting...

A version of 60FPS in 12-bit (probably lossy) compressed is promised for next year.

More specifically, full-sensor "slightly-over-8K" 60 FPS video in N-Raw (12-bit) internal is promised. At the very least it should be possible to record that video, grab a still frame and be able to edit it fairly heavily. Furthermore, i would expect that format to allow recording for longer than a couple of seconds, so you'd get quite good "buffer" performance too. Of course, we'd have to see how badly N-Raw compresses the data, but one might hope that it's better than the existing 10-bit video formats and somewhere in the ballpark of Nikon's 12-bit stills.

Given the info above, i would also expect a dedicated 12-bit 60FPS (or something between 30 and 60) photo frame rate to be added - possibly at the exact same quality as the video, possibly a tiny bit better. This has not been teased or confirmed, but it makes all the sense in the world, especially knowing how Nikon has been giving us these quasi-video high-frame-rate modes in JPEG format recently.

[Sorry if this has been discussed already - I only read through about a third of this thread by now]

 

[jpawlan]

OK, after going over everything, there are three area where I have a little concern:

1. EVF - 3.6 million dots. One of the reasons I like the a1 so much is that I forget I'm looking though an EVF and the 120 (or even 240) frame refresh rate is helpful when tracking fast subjects. Still, the reviews seem to think it's great, so I'm optimistic.

2. Buffer - I hope it was just a quirk with the preproduction camera dpreview was using, but 40 frames at full 14 bit uncompressed RAW is strikingly low. A two second long RAW buffer is less time shooting than a D7500! Maybe the compressed format is indistinguishable from the lossless option though so we don't have to worry about it.
EDIT - Matt Grainger had a better CFexpress card and while it didn't look like he tested lossless compressed, it looks like he got like 1800 or so using enhanced - I think that the buffer's gotta be bigger than 40 based on just that. That makes far more sense. I'll test it for sure when I get the camera.

3. Eye AF - The fact that Nikon says it's for cats, dogs, and birds makes me wonder how it'll do with the rest of the mammals out there.

Overall, it looks like a solid offering and I already have my NPS order placed. So, I look forward tor trying it out.

It does seem like Nikon more or less just caught up to the competition. I don't really see anywhere (for stills anyway) that they markedly outdid what the a1 or R3 can do. I think about the only place is scan speed and those differences are incredibly minor.

Still, one thing about Nikon - their pro bodies are always more than the sum of their spec sheets. Looking forward to getting it.

Dear Steve,
I wish it were available sooner as I will be going to Ecuador to photograph birds first half of Dec. I will wait to order it after I return and after reading your in depth review. I do have a couple of answers to questions: a) the FTZ-ii is needed because the bottom of the original FTZ blocks using the side grip. b) I did find out that the focusing system in this and the Z7 are closed loop feedback systems. Therefore the only reason to use Fine Focus Tuning is when you intentionally want to shoot photos with intentional front focusing or rear focusing for artistic effect. I also found out from Nikon that the Z9 calculates the focus almost 150 times per second which is truly useful for fast bursts. It can do 3 focus checks per frame. Please test the focusing speed with the 500mm F mount and other long F mount telephotos. No one yet has said if they truly fixed the focus acquisition speed with the FTZ.

 

[Whiskeyman]

Why post this nonsense? Unless you are tring to attract attention to the channel, perhaps because it has been flamed on FM and dpr etc, and there is a long history why this brand basher has been banned there and from Nikon Rumors

https://www.truetoad.com/Blog/bad-youtube-photography-channels

http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018...rust-youtube-channels-like-tony-northrup.html

http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2018/08/downfalls-of-the-angry-photographer-epic-fail.html


http://taipeigeek.blogspot.com/2020/09/fred-miranda-shares-angry-photographer-garbage.html

I watched a couple of his videos a while ago. I couldn't stand the first, but gave him the benefit of doubt and watched another, and came to the conclusion that he's putting out rubbish. I'd rather waste my time reading Ken Rockwell than watching his reviews.

 

[Whiskeyman]

One thing I wish this camera (and others) had is the ability to automatically write to one specific memory card when shooting and to later automatically transfer (cut and paste, not just copy) the files from that card to the second card. That way, you could have a really fast card in the primary card slot for recording rapid sequences, and a slower, higher capacity (less expensive per GB) card in the other slot for long term storage. It would implement an element of risk into your storage on camera, which might be too high for some, but there would be benefits to it for some.

 

[NorthernFocus]

re: the buffer/card issue. Nikon engineering has a history of looking forward to improved memory cards. Recall they were the first to use XQD cards when Sony was the only supplier, they were hard to get, and super expensive(relatively speaking). Fast forward XQD got bigger, better, faster and then CFE came out in essentially the same form factor. Now everybody is using them. Hmmm. Guess they knew what they were doing. So everybody just cool your jets. The card technology will only improve with time and the "buffer" will be a non-issue.

 

[Darwin]

re: the buffer/card issue. Nikon engineering has a history of looking forward to improved memory cards. Recall they were the first to use XQD cards when Sony was the only supplier, they were hard to get, and super expensive(relatively speaking). Fast forward XQD got bigger, better, faster and then CFE came out in essentially the same form factor. Now everybody is using them. Hmmm. Guess they knew what they were doing. So everybody just cool your jets. The card technology will only improve with time and the "buffer" will be a non-issue.

Exactly

 

[Mommacat]

Not sure if this was already shared but it's excellent!

 

[jmurthy]

re: the buffer/card issue. Nikon engineering has a history of looking forward to improved memory cards. Recall they were the first to use XQD cards when Sony was the only supplier, they were hard to get, and super expensive(relatively speaking). Fast forward XQD got bigger, better, faster and then CFE came out in essentially the same form factor. Now everybody is using them. Hmmm. Guess they knew what they were doing. So everybody just cool your jets. The card technology will only improve with time and the "buffer" will be a non-issue.

agree, and maybe, maybe Nikon has figured a way out to compress the raw more efficiently without discernable loss of image quality.. my preorder stays despite all these issues. Sans buffer issue which could technically be solved in the near future ( and they dont have to do that if the “lossy” compression is superb) they have really met all my shooting needs with this camera at a price point i simply did not expect ..

 

[eaj101]

In their defense (somewhat) they’re protecting themselves against the people who place a dozen orders at different places leaving them holding the bag.

 

[Ken Miracle]

Looking forward to @Steve getting his Z9, then his review and update to his books ie. secrets to the nikon auto focus system mirrorless edition. I bought it for my wife and her Z50 now when my pre order slot pops up some day I will need it

 

[DaleJr]

So,... you want the same camera with a different name at a $3k discount? NGH!

I assumed it was obvious, but let me explain. That would be a theoretical D500. Zx0 is nikon's naming standard for crop sensor cameras. The D500 was like a baby D5 but at a $2,000 price point back in 2016 and focus points went to the edges vs the D5. The D5 was $6,500 at the time. Auto focus was the same system, frame rate was similar (10fps vs 12fps), build quality, etc. In my opinion, they don't have a great crop/DX camera yet. I am not impressed with the Z50 and the Zfc is a fun camera I would like to own but doesn't meet my purpose so I can't justify it.

Also, I bet the D500 has sold way more units than the D5. I saw a lot of people own both a D850 and a D500....even some that owned both a D5 and D500. I feel for those enthusiasts that can afford/justify a Z9, they would probably get a Z90 too. It would be smart for Nikon to make one in the z lineup to reach D500 crowd. I personally can not justify spending $5,500 for a camera that is not going to make my photos 250% better vs a "z90." And I am 100% sure there are way more people right now in the same boat I am. If you can afford and justify purchasing the Z9, go for it! I thank you for supporting Nikon and further funding the development of a Z90.

 

[jmurthy]

Not sure if this was already shared but it's excellent!

thank you!
comment by chris around 9:30 confirms 14 bit 45MP compresion of RAW in the new High efficiency mode.. a 1000 shot buffer as demoed by Matt granger and if the image quality is excellent, will check all my boxes )