Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

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I assumed it was obvious, but let me explain. That would be a theoretical D500. Zx0 is nikon's naming standard for crop sensor cameras. The D500 was like a baby D5 but at a $2,000 price point back in 2016 and focus points went to the edges vs the D5. The D5 was $6,500 at the time. Auto focus was the same system, frame rate was similar (10fps vs 12fps), build quality, etc. In my opinion, they don't have a great crop/DX camera yet. I am not impressed with the Z50 and the Zfc is a fun camera I would like to own but doesn't meet my purpose so I can't justify it.

Also, I bet the D500 has sold way more units than the D5. I saw a lot of people own both a D850 and a D500....even some that owned both a D5 and D500. I feel for those enthusiasts that can afford/justify a Z9, they would probably get a Z90 too. It would be smart for Nikon to make one in the z lineup to reach D500 crowd. I personally can not justify spending $5,500 for a camera that is not going to make my photos 250% better vs a "z90." And I am 100% sure there are way more people right now in the same boat I am. If you can afford and justify purchasing the Z9, go for it! I thank you for supporting Nikon and further funding the development of a Z90. ;)
I see your point, but when you said same specs in the first post, that cried out FX, not DX, to me. I, too would have loved for Nikon to concurrently release, or just announce, a Z90, as you describe it, and sell a million of them. As far as owning both the Z9 and the hypothetical Z90, based upon your example of the D5 and D500, there might be some of that. But if I owned the Z9, I can't see purchasing a Z90. How I managed to own both the D500 and D850 was that I thought that I'd go with the D500 and purchased it first, planning to use it an my D750 in the field. However, I had issues with picking up and tracking my subjects with the reduced field of view of the DX format D500, but saw how much more detail was in the D500 files over the D750's. Afterwards, I purchased my D850. If I had purchased the D850 before the D500, I really doubt that I would have purchased the D500. The only reasons I haven't sold my D500 and D750 is that my children, no longer children, use them and I plan to let them have them if they want them. I even have two copies of the 70-200 mm AF-S lens; one is the E FL version and the other is the G model. One is inoperable (won't autofocus), but is going to Nikon Service for repair soon. When I get them back, it will also get passed on to my kids.

As far as if the Z9 will make my photos 250% better than what they are now, I see some potential for that happening. With the eye-priority autofocus and the improved frame rate, the potential to get a "wall hanger", as Steve Perry says, should go way up. One of the pros I visit informs me that his keeper rate went way up due to both the improved focus modes and increased frame rate shooting with his Canon R5. He's shooting Birds-In-Flight at least 80-90% of the time, and he gets more in-focus shots and more frames over time, allowing him to get better wing positions in more of his shots and having more of them in focus.

As far as supporting Nikon, I'm doing more than my share in the digital camera body department, but according to Nikon data, I'm a bit below average when it comes to how many lenses per camera I own. :LOL:
 
One thing I wish this camera (and others) had is the ability to automatically write to one specific memory card when shooting and to later automatically transfer (cut and paste, not just copy) the files from that card to the second card. That way, you could have a really fast card in the primary card slot for recording rapid sequences, and a slower, higher capacity (less expensive per GB) card in the other slot for long term storage. It would implement an element of risk into your storage on camera, which might be too high for some, but there would be benefits to it for some.

Yah, I've had similar thoughts as well. I'd rather just have a backup mode that wrote to primary card, then copied to the other card during idle time. I've also wished for something someone else here mentioned, the ability to write to alternating cards in order to double the xfer rate. Bonus points for the ability to use both together so you get double the speed, then get redundancy during idle time.
 
On the other hand Could it be the Z9 has one main possible issue and that is it only has one processor making things challenging in focusing, viewfinder refresh, correct me if i am wrong, and is this really an issue at all.

It being a single processor doesn't _necessarily_ provide a performance penalty. Indeed, it may be just the opposite, for a number of reasons.

1) When we are dealing with large amounts of data, moving data around is a problem. Trying to shuffle data between processors requires more infrastructure and takes time.
2) Being a single processor doesn't mean it does one thing at a time. Indeed, it appears the Exceed 7 is doing multiple things concurrently. It appears it gets the data from the sensor and then sends it down two paths towards the EVF and storage cards concurrently. In reality, it's probably ALSO sending it to some AF specific logic concurrently.

Think about it this way. In modern computer processors you can have multiple cores. These things can do things concurrently without sending things to another chip and that is generally more efficient than adding a second chip.

That said, providing data streams in and out of a processor have a real overhead and so the interface between the processor and the outside world (to the sensor, the cards, the evf) are not unconstrained. So basically they'll decide what they absolutely need and build the chip around that.

So their likely design constraints are they aren't willing to compromise the path between the sensor and the chip. And they're not going to compromise the path between the chip and the storage (caveat, to the limit of the speed of the storage, which in this case is two pci lanes / 2000MB/s). They're going to consider how big and how fast the evf has to be since you'll multiple these together to decide the bandwidth you need to support the evf. The more bandwidth you support, the bigger and more complex and more expensive the chip has to be.

I think we can see the decisions Nikon made with Exceed 7. Basically they built it to support a 45MP sensor and a 2000MB/s (give or take) storage subsystem and budgeted what they think was "enough" for evf. Works for me.

The interesting thing to think about here is... what's the next step. 2000MB/s is a hard limit for cfe-b. You can go to cfe-c for 4000MB/s, but I can't see anyone wanting to move to another format anytime soon. You could do NVME SSD, but they aren't really designed to be handled that much. That makes 30fps a pretty hard limit for a 45MP camera and that's assuming you have storage faster than is available today. So if you go bigger on the sensor, we're going to slow down. At least for the foreseeable future, unless maybe we start interleaving images on cards.

Interesting times.
 
It depends on whether the limitation is the card speed, or the PCIe bus, or the processor. I'd be surprised if they dimensioned the bus/CPU to be able to handle 2× the speed, but who knows.

Yes, this is a good point. The Exceed 7 may very well only have 2000MB/s budgeted for storage. My primary thought here wasn't 100% focused on the Exceed 7, but "where do you go from here" in the big picture, since I think we're pretty much constrained by the 2xCFE-b form factor for a while due to practicality
 
I thought it would be a good idea to put everything about the Z9 into one thread with the official announcement. We'll start with the Live Stream video:


I'll update this post with the specs as we go :)


View attachment 26646

Main specs:

Price $5499 (US)

Sensor - Stacked 45.7 MP, ISO 64-26,600 (120 cycles per second)

Autofocus - 493 points. Eye detection for people, dog, cat, bird, car, motorcycle, bicycle, train plane (AF to EV-6.5. "starlight mode" to -8.5 EV)
AF Areas - pinpoint, single point, Wide (S & L), Dynamic (S, M, L - new) 3D , subject tracking,

Frame rate- 20 FPS at full resolution (RAW). 30 FPS (JPEG full res) 120FPS (11MP JPEG)

Storage- CF Express B, XQD

Video- 8K UHD 24p or 30p, 4K 120p

Buffer - 1000 frames at full res, 20 FPS using the new high efficiency RAW compressed format

Shutter - No mechanical shutter, minimal rolling shutter, speed to 1/32,000th

Viewfinder - No frame dropping, 3690K dot, brightest in industry at the moment

All specs / Nikon page:
Steve,
Do you need to do AF Fine Tune adjustments with a mirrorless using F mount lenses?
Thanks
 
There were indications earlier this year of Nikon taking its Expeed7 into radically new territory, and who knows it's still untapped potential....

""It is possible the new EXPEED processor forthcoming in the Z9 is as important as the new stacked sensor (likely produced by TSC). However, there is no explicit confirmation Nikon-Socienext has already migrated Milbeat to 5NP. Nevertheless, basing the new EXPEED in 5NP will avoid the Z9 overheating alongside a few other benefits :cool: ..."



Yes, this is a good point. The Exceed 7 may very well only have 2000MB/s budgeted for storage. My primary thought here wasn't 100% focused on the Exceed 7, but "where do you go from here" in the big picture, since I think we're pretty much constrained by the 2xCFE-b form factor for a while due to practicality
 
On the other hand Could it be the Z9 has one main possible issue and that is it only has one processor making things challenging in focusing, viewfinder refresh, correct me if i am wrong, and is this really an issue at all.

There is no issue, in fact the Z9 is world leading in several aspects for focusing and viewfinder. The new Exceed 7 in the Z9 is a single processor but x10 faster than the processor in the Z 6s and Z 7s. The scan rate is the best in the industry along with the dual processor channels in the Exceed 7 giving focusing and viewfinder separate processor feeds, another unique point for the Z9.

This video from Mark Cruz has been posted before but explains the technical size of the Z9.

 
Thanks for the reminder to watch this video properly. This bloke is a great asset to Nikon. He knows his subject: articulate without any infantile histrionics. And Matthew Gordon Smith must have had acting training; his is a brilliant sense of timing and intonation !

~10:00 > "with a minimum sustained write speed of 1400mb/s..." this is another official confirmation of how the Z9 buffer and burst rates interface with the CFExpress B card storage. a post from a FM member in SE Asia is another confirmation of footnote in the Z9 Brochure, pg13 : "... according to my beta testing friend, Nikon Singapore sent all their Z9 field testers Prograde Cobalt 325gb card and said that this is the card they found the most stable and used it extensively in the factory during developmental phase of Z9."

{snip} This video from Mark Cruz has been posted before but explains the technical size of the Z9.

 
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Yes, this is a good point. The Exceed 7 may very well only have 2000MB/s budgeted for storage. My primary thought here wasn't 100% focused on the Exceed 7, but "where do you go from here" in the big picture, since I think we're pretty much constrained by the 2xCFE-b form factor for a while due to practicality

The good part is that we'll know very soon (once the first cameras are delivered) what the limitation is. If it's the single CFE card speed, then selecting "backup" for the 2nd card slot will keep same FPS (I kind of doubt it); if the limitation is earlier upstream, like the total PCIe lanes for cards, then it will get slower.

It could also be that the limitation is the NEF encoder, not sure if that can be split easily out - well, we know JPEG is faster to shoot (30 FPS), if that stays even with backup, then it could very well be the NEF encoding is the actual limiter.

I'm sure some people will be able to dig this out and document well.
 
For those still reading this thread, page 25, congratulations on your devotion.
I just discovered the excellent 30 min You Tube video by Ricci describing his impressions of 3 months with a Z9 which has been mentioned as an aside here, but never given the center stage i think it deserves. Well done.
 
I just held my (A1) shutter release open and it didn’t sputter until I counted to 7.
20 fps lossless compressed
That’s what I get as well. I wish it were a couple seconds longer for those longer diving sequences but I can quickly change to lossy compressed if the light is good and I need long bursts. Mark Smith only shoots lossy on the A1 so I may end up doing that too once I am more comfortable with it.
 
Hi @Steve , by that do you mean mirrorless cameras can also have AF tolerance errors like the DSLRs where the camera/ lens combo may have front or back focusing issues or do you mean the AFFT options are available on the mirrorless because some photographers may be deliberately dialing in AFFT values trying to have some front or back focusing? For instance when photographing wildlife some photographers prefer focusing somewhere midway between the critter's eyes and nose/mouth to get both the eyes and nose sharp because focusing just on the eyes may make the nose soft.

It's technically possible, but not likely.
 
Interesting info on Thom Hogan’s website, under the section ‘The Unanswered Z9 Questions’… claims that info from Nikon states that when tested with the Prograde Colbalt cards it achieved the 1000+ frame buffer for JPEG and/or RAW High Efficiency… info we’ve seen widely reported.

Then goes on to suggest that the figure with lossless RAW+ JPEG is 60, which if my maths is right, is only a 3 second burst…quite a difference! I’m no expert, but even if you only shot in lossless RAW (ie dropped the + JPEG), although it might improve a bit, it wouldn’t be a massive improvement. Let’s just hope that the RAW High Efficiency is decent.
 
This is exactly why I'd like to know more on:
1. What are the differences between compressed raw and High efficiency * - if the difference is negligible as claimed by Nikon, this mode should increase the buffer much better (like 100 plus shots).
2. What happens when the fps is set to lower rates like 15 or 12 or for that matter even in DX mode, this should technically improve the buffer.
3. How quickly can the buffer clear once it hits the limit of 60 or so in compressed raw 14 bit.

Interesting info on Thom Hogan’s website, under the section ‘The Unanswered Z9 Questions’… claims that info from Nikon states that when tested with the Prograde Colbalt cards it achieved the 1000+ frame buffer for JPEG and/or RAW High Efficiency… info we’ve seen widely reported.

Then goes on to suggest that the figure with lossless RAW+ JPEG is 60, which if my maths is right, is only a 3 second burst…quite a difference! I’m no expert, but even if you only shot in lossless RAW (ie dropped the + JPEG), although it might improve a bit, it wouldn’t be a massive improvement. Let’s just hope that the RAW High Efficiency is decent.
 
That's easy to fix.

Yes, it can be. But I'm going in the wrong direction! :rolleyes: I've taken my lens savings and put it into an account for the Z9.

I was pressing toward purchasing a 200mm f/2 AF-S VRII, which by the way, costs just south of the price of the Z9, refurbed from Nikon or in excellent condition on the used market.

Now that Matt Granger has published his experience with the 200 f/2 married to the Z9, I doubt the price of the lens is going down anytime soon. Hopefully, they will still be about the same price when I finally get enough saved again to purchase the lens.
 
Interesting info on Thom Hogan’s website, under the section ‘The Unanswered Z9 Questions’… claims that info from Nikon states that when tested with the Prograde Colbalt cards it achieved the 1000+ frame buffer for JPEG and/or RAW High Efficiency… info we’ve seen widely reported.

Then goes on to suggest that the figure with lossless RAW+ JPEG is 60, which if my maths is right, is only a 3 second burst…quite a difference! I’m no expert, but even if you only shot in lossless RAW (ie dropped the + JPEG), although it might improve a bit, it wouldn’t be a massive improvement. Let’s just hope that the RAW High Efficiency is decent.
I think you are right on the 3 seconds. And that it will likely be better with lossless compressed RAW only (that’s at least what you see on the Nikon DSLRs).

The Sony online help guide for the A1 says it can take 83 images at 20 fps with lossless RAW + JPEG, so about a second longer than the Z9 spec.

One interesting thing will be what happens when you shoot lossless compressed RAW (and no extra JPEG) and hold the button down past 3 or 4 seconds.

Hut2 and FB101 say their A1s go about 7 seconds when you hold the shutter down, so better than the spec in the Sony online help guide.

It will be interesting to see what the Z9 does if you shoot losseless compressed RAW and hold the shutter down. I suspect it may slow after 3 or 4 seconds, but probably not stop. I wonder how fast it will continue, as the buffer clears to the CFe card, especially with a fast card like the Prograde Cobalt or Delkin Black.

Also, if the High Efficiency or High Efficiency* is good enough in quality (and it’s interesting to hear that Mark Smith shoots lossy on his A1), the burst length goes to 1000.

I’ve never hit the 200 frame buffer on my D500 and only rarely the 51 frame buffer on my D850. So I suspect the Z9 burst capcaity will be good enough for me. But more is better when you need it. I ordered some fast Delkin Black CFe cards at B&H before they went out of stock, to have onhand when I am able to get a Z9.
 
That’s what I get as well. I wish it were a couple seconds longer for those longer diving sequences but I can quickly change to lossy compressed if the light is good and I need long bursts. Mark Smith only shoots lossy on the A1 so I may end up doing that too once I am more comfortable with it.


Interesting to learn that Mark Smith shoots mostly lossy Sony files.
 
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Thanks for the reminder to watch this video properly. This bloke is a great asset to Nikon. He knows his subject: articulate without any infantile histrionics. And Matthew Gordon Smith must have had acting training; his is a brilliant sense of timing and intonation !

~10:00 > "with a minimum sustained write speed of 1400mb/s..." this is another official confirmation of how the Z9 buffer and burst rates interface with the CFExpress B card storage. a post from a FM member in SE Asia is another confirmation of footnote in the Z9 Brochure, pg13 : "... according to my beta testing friend, Nikon Singapore sent all their Z9 field testers Prograde Cobalt 325gb card and said that this is the card they found the most stable and used it extensively in the factory during developmental phase of Z9."
I note the Delkin Black 128 are sold out everywhere I've checked. I paused :)
 
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