Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

If you would like to post, you'll need to register. Note that if you have a BCG store account, you'll need a new, separate account here (we keep the two sites separate for security purposes).

Member's gallery
thelordofthelight said:
Hi @Steve , by that do you mean mirrorless cameras can also have AF tolerance errors like the DSLRs where the camera/ lens combo may have front or back focusing issues or do you mean the AFFT options are available on the mirrorless because some photographers may be deliberately dialing in AFFT values trying to have some front or back focusing? For instance when photographing wildlife some photographers prefer focusing somewhere midway between the critter's eyes and nose/mouth to get both the eyes and nose sharp because focusing just on the eyes may make the nose soft.
Click to expand...
If you read @Steve's mirrorless AF book he talks about the potential problem and situation where someone 'might' have to use AFFT on a MILC. It has to do with the way focus is achieved, basically focus is calculated and a focus offset value is sent to the AF controller which adjusts as much as directed. If that focusing offset value isn't quite right the lens will miss focus and it's not really a classical control loop where it will iterate and converge towards a solution to get it right. If the AF system tried again the body would just calculate a new value assuming the lens offset to proper focus is correct and still get it wrong. If you ever got a lens that demonstrated that problem, fine tuning could help.

IOW, having the AF sensors right on the main sensor eliminate AF Fine Tuning in almost all situations but the way focusing is achieved and those offset values used to achieve focus make it possible that some lens could need fine tuning to adjust those values.
 
Member's gallery
BillW said:
I think you are right on the 3 seconds. And that it will likely be better with lossless compressed RAW only (that’s at least what you see on the Nikon DSLRs).

The Sony online help guide for the A1 says it can take 83 images at 20 fps with lossless RAW + JPEG, so about a second longer than the Z9 spec.

One interesting thing will be what happens when you shoot lossless compressed RAW (and no extra JPEG) and hold the button down past 3 or 4 seconds.

Hut2 and FB101 say their A1s go about 7 seconds when you hold the shutter down, so better than the spec in the Sony online help guide.

It will be interesting to see what the Z9 does if you shoot losseless compressed RAW and hold the shutter down. I suspect it may slow after 3 or 4 seconds, but probably not stop. I wonder how fast it will continue, as the buffer clears to the CFe card, especially with a fast card like the Prograde Cobalt or Delkin Black.

Also, if the High Efficiency or High Efficiency* is good enough in quality (and it’s interesting to hear that Mark Smith shoots lossy on his A1), the burst length goes to 1000.

I’ve never hit the 200 frame buffer on my D500 and only rarely the 51 frame buffer on my D850. So I suspect the Z9 burst capcaity will be good enough for me. But more is better when you need it. I ordered some fast Delkin Black CFe cards at B&H before they went out of stock, to have onhand when I am able to get a Z9.
Click to expand...
I am interested in hearing the feedback from others on the lossy compression quality. There have been quite a few compression advancements so there might very little reason to avoid them unless needing the most DR in a landscape.

I could be wrong but I think the 200 buffer limit in the D500 is artificial. My understanding is once you hit the limit of 200, if you release the shutter and press it again, you’ll get another 200 shots. You can set the maximum number of frames allowed in burst in the menu system. I’ve read it’s there to protect the shutter in a situation where you left the camera on and placed it a bag and something pressed the shutter button.
 
Member's gallery
thelordofthelight said:
Unfortunately in India, these cards are not even available widely. And with the limited options available online, those are like double the USD price 😔
Click to expand...
I didn't find, even sold out, the Delkin Black version here in Canada either; was shopping US via internet. Same for Prograde, no Cobalt at all even listed as sold out. And in the US all I saw of the Cobalt were very huge (assuming for video users) cards at the price of a cheap lens :)
 
Member's gallery
There appears to be no major restrictions with highest speed CFExp B cards recording long continuous bursts at higher fps IF these are HE Raw files ~ 1/2 size of uncompressed RAW :
Marc Cruz Nikon USA live discussion panel @10:00 > 50 seconds and more at high fps up 1000..... 30fps at 45mp and he discusses @53:00 > New Compression algorithm of 45mp RAW 14bit images is highly efficient. We can get to 1/3 file size, yet kept in full 14bit....

[EDIT] from earlier post above, Nikon is using this compression code apparently - https://www.intopix.com/tico-raw ]

Nikon Brochure: pg 18, " High-resolution files tend to be heavy, especially when using RAW, and require additional hard drive space or a high-spec computer to store and edit them. For RAW users, the Z 9 introduces High Efficiency RAW which retains the same level of high image quality as the conventional uncompressed RAW in an approx. 1/3 smaller* file size — making RAW files easier to handle than ever. * In High Efficiency RAW. In High Efficiency RAW , the file size is approx. 1/2 of the conventional uncompressed RAW."

* In High Efficiency RAW. In High Efficiency RAW , the file size is approx. 1/2 of the conventional uncompressed RAW.

BillW said:
I think you are right on the 3 seconds. And that it will likely be better with lossless compressed RAW only (that’s at least what you see on the Nikon DSLRs).

The Sony online help guide for the A1 says it can take 83 images at 20 fps with lossless RAW + JPEG, so about a second longer than the Z9 spec.

One interesting thing will be what happens when you shoot lossless compressed RAW (and no extra JPEG) and hold the button down past 3 or 4 seconds.

Hut2 and FB101 say their A1s go about 7 seconds when you hold the shutter down, so better than the spec in the Sony online help guide.

It will be interesting to see what the Z9 does if you shoot losseless compressed RAW and hold the shutter down. I suspect it may slow after 3 or 4 seconds, but probably not stop. I wonder how fast it will continue, as the buffer clears to the CFe card, especially with a fast card like the Prograde Cobalt or Delkin Black.

Also, if the High Efficiency or High Efficiency* is good enough in quality (and it’s interesting to hear that Mark Smith shoots lossy on his A1), the burst length goes to 1000.

I’ve never hit the 200 frame buffer on my D500 and only rarely the 51 frame buffer on my D850. So I suspect the Z9 burst capcaity will be good enough for me. But more is better when you need it. I ordered some fast Delkin Black CFe cards at B&H before they went out of stock, to have onhand when I am able to get a Z9.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
sid_19911991 said:
Z9 AF-Z9 tracks an erratic butterfly with background clutter!


This is probably the best EVF AF recording of the Z9 that I have seen on the Internet.

The shooter uses different modes to track different birds.

At one point he tracks an erratic butterfly amidst a busy background with 3 D tracking. Going by the video, seems like 3D tracking is the best AF mode.


Click to expand...

Disappointing, it doesn't come with Butterfly eye-AF... :sneaky: - Ok, just teasing and tongue in cheek - the Z9 already shows that it can AF like the very best and maybe is the very best now (we'll know in due time).
 
Member's gallery
sid_19911991 said:
Z9 AF-Z9 tracks an erratic butterfly with background clutter!


This is probably the best EVF AF recording of the Z9 that I have seen on the Internet.

The shooter uses different modes to track different birds.

At one point he tracks an erratic butterfly amidst a busy background with 3 D tracking. Going by the video, seems like 3D tracking is the best AF mode.
Click to expand...
The butterfly caught my attention too but watch it again. Note the butterfly is much darker and different color than anything in the surroundings/BG. Not a good test IMO. The biggest issue I've seen with AF in all of the DSLRs to date is when the subject and BG are similar colors/shades. Like a brown bird flying across a BG of trees with the same light falling on them. More recent camera models hold up OK if focus lock was already on the bird before it crosses the BG but struggles if trying to get first lock in front of a busy BG. In the video a couple of the diving osprey pass in front of a busy BG but only after being locked in focus tracking and just briefly before hitting the water. Don't get me wrong the focus tracking still looks pretty "sticky" but the examples seem to be well chosen to avoid the toughest conditions.
 
Member's gallery
FB101 said:
Disappointing, it doesn't come with Butterfly eye-AF... :sneaky: - Ok, just teasing and tongue in cheek - the Z9 already shows that it can AF like the very best and maybe is the very best now (we'll know in due time).
Click to expand...

I am delighted that they are releasing these EVF animal AF recording videos of the Z9.

And the Z9 can only get better.

The AI & hardware is in place. So a few tweaks to the AI & firmware updates will further improve the AF by probably 20-30% I guess.
 
Member's gallery
NorthernFocus said:
The butterfly caught my attention too but watch it again. Note the butterfly is much darker and different color than anything in the surroundings/BG. Not a good test IMO. The biggest issue I've seen with AF in all of the DSLRs to date is when the subject and BG are similar colors/shades. Like a brown bird flying across a BG of trees with the same light falling on them. More recent camera models hold up OK if focus lock was already on the bird before it crosses the BG but struggles if trying to get first lock in front of a busy BG. In the video a couple of the diving osprey pass in front of a busy BG but only after being locked in focus tracking and just briefly before hitting the water. Don't get me wrong the focus tracking still looks pretty "sticky" but the examples seem to be well chosen to avoid the toughest conditions.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, you make a relevant point.

I guess the initial target can only be found out in person unless someone makes a video depicting that.

I guess we will know in a few months from Steve.
 
Member's gallery
DRwyoming said:
If you read @Steve's mirrorless AF book he talks about the potential problem and situation where someone 'might' have to use AFFT on a MILC. It has to do with the way focus is achieved, basically focus is calculated and a focus offset value is sent to the AF controller which adjusts as much as directed. If that focusing offset value isn't quite right the lens will miss focus and it's not really a classical control loop where it will iterate and converge towards a solution to get it right. If the AF system tried again the body would just calculate a new value assuming the lens offset to proper focus is correct and still get it wrong. If you ever got a lens that demonstrated that problem, fine tuning could help.

IOW, having the AF sensors right on the main sensor eliminate AF Fine Tuning in almost all situations but the way focusing is achieved and those offset values used to achieve focus make it possible that some lens could need fine tuning to adjust those values.
Click to expand...
According to Nikon, the focusing is a closed loop feedback control system. So focus fine tune is not really needed other than artistic preferences by the user.
 
Member's gallery
John Woodworth said:
I ordered ProGrade 325GB Cobalts from Adorama a couple of days ago. I think mine are shipping but they are now on backorder!
Click to expand...
Yah, I went to B&H right after reading the card read comments but then didn't order since, you know the cam is at least 60 days away, and then went back yesterday and the size I want (128) is now 'back ordered".
 
Member's gallery
ssheipel said:
I didn't find, even sold out, the Delkin Black version here in Canada either; was shopping US via internet. Same for Prograde, no Cobalt at all even listed as sold out. And in the US all I saw of the Cobalt were very huge (assuming for video users) cards at the price of a cheap lens :)
Click to expand...
Sssshhh. Dont tell everyone. They have 64,128 and 512 listed at "in stock"

thecamerastore.com

Delkin Black 128GB CFexpress Card

Delkin's Fastest Sustained Sequential Write Speeds Available Built to meet the extensive demands of today’s broadcast, cinema and photography industries, Delkin BLACK CFexpressTM Type B memory cards ensure full functionality and performance in today’s high-end hosts. Other competing CFexpressTM...
thecamerastore.com thecamerastore.com
 
Last edited:
Member's gallery
thelordofthelight said:
Hi @Steve , by that do you mean mirrorless cameras can also have AF tolerance errors like the DSLRs where the camera/ lens combo may have front or back focusing issues or do you mean the AFFT options are available on the mirrorless because some photographers may be deliberately dialing in AFFT values trying to have some front or back focusing? For instance when photographing wildlife some photographers prefer focusing somewhere midway between the critter's eyes and nose/mouth to get both the eyes and nose sharp because focusing just on the eyes may make the nose soft.
Click to expand...
It's technically possible, more with the adapter though (you have tolerances between the camera, lens, and adapter that could potentially be off). It's not common though. Certainly not something I would worry about unless I actually saw consistent front or back focusing.
 
Member's gallery
jpawlan said:
According to Nikon, the focusing is a closed loop feedback control system. So focus fine tune is not really needed other than artistic preferences by the user.
Click to expand...

That's right. You should not need AF Fine Tuning for normal use. Even with a lens that needed repair, my AF was perfect using my Z6 but outside of the range of fine tuning that was possible on my D850.

You might use AF Fine Tuning to bias your focus intentionally. For example, yesterday I was photographing foxhunting. I was focusing on the rider's knee to have the right DOF so the rider and horse were in relative focus, but I could have used Eye AF and biased focus forward using Fine Tuning.
 
Member's gallery
DaleJr said:
I assumed it was obvious, but let me explain. That would be a theoretical D500.
Click to expand...
I agree…99.9% of my output is to my blog but I do like wildlife action and BIF as well as landscapes and assorted travel photos. For my purposes…a DX sensor is plenty…not to mention the crop factor that extends the focal length for more reach. There's also the lighter weight and smaller size of the DX body…I got plenty of fabulous shots from my D7500 but upgraded to the Z7II…first for more MP to balance out the crop factor loss and second because weight and size wise it's just about the same as the D7500 is.

I don't do much video…and for blog purposes taking it with an iPhone is just fine; especially with ProRES in the new ones. I don't care about shooting portrait as I rarely do that and don't care about a built in grip. What I do care about…like a lot of people…is good AF, decent FPS…although we might see something less than 20 on a DX because of less battery capacity but the smaller image size kinda makes up for that to some extent, and a smaller/lighter package to carry making it a good travel camera as well as a good wildlife/BIF/landscape camera. Getting rid of the EVF blackout is also good…but a large degree of the better EVF is the Z9 and a1 is simply a newer/better tech EVF itself. For my purposes…shooting 30 FPS jpg doesn't really mean much…as does 120 jpg…realistically 20 is plenty and from a practical standpoint 15 is really more than most of us really need. Yes…more keepers makes picking the perfect expression or wing beat or whatever easier…but unless you need to make money from the "best" keeper than "really good" keeper is just fine…especially for screen outputs.

I would have stayed with a crop sensor body myself except I found the Z50 features lacking for what I want to do outside of being a travel rig…mostly not enough FPS unless you go to High extended with the inherent drawbacks from the slideshow thing. My bride however…loves hers. She carried my old D7100 before and for weight purposes only carried the 18-55 lens…which meant that she got no distant wildlife or BIF shots…she left me get those and concentrated on closer things and what she calls artsy-fartsy shots. The 2 lens Z50 kit gives her a 375mm equivalent focal length and less weight with 2 lenses than she had before…so she's happy as a clam. I would buy a more fully featured crop sensor Z in a heartbeat…but it needs better AF and FPS than the Z7II does for the distant wildlife, action, and BIF shots.
 
Member's gallery
Whiskeyman said:
But if I owned the Z9, I can't see purchasing a Z90.
Click to expand...

Yep…makes perfect sense assuming one has a Z9 and isn't interested in a smaller travel/walking around camera. However…for really the vast majority of people…we won't own a Z9 for a variety of reasons…cost, size, weight, overkill for needs, output destination, difficulty in getting ahold of one, etc. Most of us simply will drool a bit over the Z9's capabilities…but won't ever even slightly seriously consider buying one…just like we wouldn't but a 600/f4 or 800/f-whatever or a Ferrari.

And truthfully…again for the vast majority of us…a crop sensor body is more than adequate assuming it's got more prosumer features…like the D500 does over it's DX brethren. Size and weight count a lot…not only in a travel camera but in a hiking for wildlife/BIF/landscape camera…especially if the larger size and weight don't really buy a lot of better IQ based on where your shots go and what you do with them. More MP and better high and low ISO performance is nice…but we've all seen many, many quite excellent images taken with 11MP cameras from 6 or 10 years ago.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top