Official Nikon Z9 Launch, Info, and Discussion Thread

[FB101]

I like Mark Smith... his enthusiasm and love for the hobby but I find many of his images to be pretty meh.

His story-telling certainly stands-out but I wouldn't call his photography "Meh" - once I meet his standard consistently, I'll worry about exceeding it But I do agree, Steve's pictures stand-out much better - in good parts because Steve's post-processing skills are in another league altogether.

 

[la551ve3]

Ricci clarifies buffer vs Raw file type.

One thing (among many others) in this video I found interesting was how fast the buffer cleared. Yest, you may be limited to 81 shots (sigh) before the buffer fills but releasing the shutter clears the buffer (if not entirely) in a split second.

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[iustin]

And truthfully…again for the vast majority of us…a crop sensor body is more than adequate assuming it's got more prosumer features…like the D500 does over it's DX brethren

I'll give here an anecdote as a counter-example. Sorry for the not-really-meaningful-in-general reply.

My wife couldn't care less about prosumer features per se, or which body I have, but: once I bought my first FF body (D800! I loved that camera) with a fast prime (f/1.8), any attempt over the years to downsize (even for travel kit) - whether back to APS-C, or to m4/3 - was met with "did you take the small camera again?" based on the _look_ of the pictures. Yes, even with fast DX or m4/3 lenses. There is something about shooting at f/1.8 or f/2.8 on FF that changes the look of the pictures (I don't think it's bokeh per se, but could be?).

While I'm not _that_ particular to the FF look, the shadow/highlights recovery of full-frame compared my APS-C makes me annoyed whenever I have to process pictures taken with smaller sensors. So much so that I sold (for the Nth time) my travel kit - a Z50 - and I'm resigned now that my travel kit will have to be FF; either my current Z6 II with the recent pancake primes if I want to go really small, or with the f/4 zooms (I'm not particular to long telephoto while travelling). Maybe a Z5 II will be good enough.

So there is at least some small subset of people that even for travel prefer FF. Whether the size of that is 1 person (me) or more, that I don't know.

 

[zule11]

One thing (among many others) in this video I found interesting was how fast the buffer cleared. Yest, you may be limited to 81 shots (sigh) before the buffer fills but releasing the shutter clears the buffer (if not entirely) in a split second.

Finally some real test with all quality options! Great thing that buffer clears out very fast so you can start shooting almost in a second. Definetly fast QF cards makes big difference, and with future imrovements in cards speeds buffer performance is also going to improve...

And if High Efficiency * shows almost the same quality as losseless RAW that would be a great thing (I really hope it will be that case)

 

[Stephen Berger]

I don't know if this was shot with lossy compressed RAW or not but it looks pretty good to me.

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For sure he’s got some great shots and - to me - he has many that aren’t.

When I watch/listen to him I can get fired up to go shoot he’s just not someone who’s images (for the most part) make me think/feel, “I want to take photo’s like that!”.

 

[Stephen Berger]

His story-telling certainly stands-out but I wouldn't call his photography "Meh" - once I meet his standard consistently, I'll worry about exceeding it But I do agree, Steve's pictures stand-out much better - in good parts because Steve's post-processing skills are in another league altogether.

I guess in a nutshell I aspire to capture images like Steve’s while, for the most part (for me), that isn’t true of Mark’s images.

 

[ssheipel]

Ricci clarifies buffer vs Raw file type.

Nobody does it better than Ricci. And I love that it seems the camera just may be ahead of the capability of cards currently available

 

[PeterKelly]

It will be interested to see detailed reviews on the quality of the files in the two compressed modes. Nikon claims “ imperceptible “ loss in quality from full raw to HE *.
Does anyone know what other frame rates are available? 20 fps is great for fast action but overkill for a lot of what I shoot. Is there a 10-14 fps option?

 

[Anjin San]

I'll give here an anecdote as a counter-example. Sorry for the not-really-meaningful-in-general reply.

My wife couldn't care less about prosumer features per se, or which body I have, but: once I bought my first FF body (D800! I loved that camera) with a fast prime (f/1.8), any attempt over the years to downsize (even for travel kit) - whether back to APS-C, or to m4/3 - was met with "did you take the small camera again?" based on the _look_ of the pictures. Yes, even with fast DX or m4/3 lenses. There is something about shooting at f/1.8 or f/2.8 on FF that changes the look of the pictures (I don't think it's bokeh per se, but could be?).

While I'm not _that_ particular to the FF look, the shadow/highlights recovery of full-frame compared my APS-C makes me annoyed whenever I have to process pictures taken with smaller sensors. So much so that I sold (for the Nth time) my travel kit - a Z50 - and I'm resigned now that my travel kit will have to be FF; either my current Z6 II with the recent pancake primes if I want to go really small, or with the f/4 zooms (I'm not particular to long telephoto while travelling). Maybe a Z5 II will be good enough.

So there is at least some small subset of people that even for travel prefer FF. Whether the size of that is 1 person (me) or more, that I don't know.

Yeah…there's something to be said as you can do more PP with a FF than a DX…but in the case of your Z6 vs either a D7500 or the Z50…a lot of that is really due to the larger pixels on the FF with similar MP count…and bigger pixels are going to mean less noise and more ability to pull shadows, etc. I considered the Z6II when I upgraded from my D7500…but I decided that the loss of effective reach with similar MP sensor was too big of a sacrifice for birds or animals that are out there aways. OTOH, I didn't really gain any size or weight with the Z7II over the D7500 so I'm willing to travel with the Z now instead of the 7500…but I would still like a smaller rig for traveling/walking around. Depending on the trip through…there are some places…Africa and Iceland for example…where I would carry the FF even through it is technically travel because photography would be the main reason for a trip like that. Heading off to London or Europe but not really planning on too many wildlife outings I might carry a Z crop sensor body instead. In either case…unless it's a photography primary trip I'm going to not carry the whole shebang with me. For simple travel something like the 2 DX lenses for a z50 is plenty, with my Z7II I would take the 24-70 and 70-200 but probably not carry both the latter and my 500PF…more likely to carry a pair of Z TCs in that case for weight savings.

I can't really say that my Z7Ii does better images than my D7500 did…they're different of course but unless one has comparable shots with both then it's hard…at least for me…to really say one is better than the other…and if there is a difference between shots today and 10 years ago when I was using a D7000…it's hard to say whether it's the camera, the settings used, or changes in my skills between times. I'm pretty sure that if I shot comparable shots today with the D7500 and the Z7II that the latter would be better but again a lot of that is better lenses and AF algorithms. I've never really examined whether I can pull shadows better with the Z than the crop sensor.

And like you…I don't know if the subset of people that think like me is 1 or many.

 

[Steve]

I'd be curious to know if @Steve feels lossy compressed RAW files effect his final image quality. I have been sticking with Lossless but not sure if it matters or not. Just learning

Mark is an Osprey and Eagle guru so I suspect having a large buffer ready does help his style.

I plan to do some sort of test on that (and the Nikon) eventually. Normally, compression - even Jpeg compression - won't affect image quality out of the camera. In short, if the image comes out of the camera right, it dines't make much difference what the file format is. However, where compression starts to become an issue is when you're really pushing the file - maybe it was underexposed and needed some extra love from the exposure slider, maybe the color was off, maybe the shadows required a massive pull. That's where you'll see the differences. (Heck, heavy shadow and exposure adjustments are also where you see the difference in 12 and 14 bit).

 

[BillW]

Another thing that the Ricci video makes clear is that there are two lossy compressed formats available: High Efficiency* and High Efficiency. HE* is apparently better than HE. I thought it looked like there might be two lossy formats, but was a bit unclear about it until I watched Ricci's video. Looking forward to his upcoming video on quality differences between the RAW formats.

 

[Ian]

I am retired and photography is just a hobby but I am all in and dont mind spending the money (my wife still works and makes big buck$ ). So here is my dilemma as I explained to my wife. Do I spend $11.7K for a Nikon package or do I spend $12.4K for the Sony package. Her reaction was, "If that is the biggest problem in you life atm you have it easy". Like I said, she doesn't understand. I am thinking maybe I need a new wife to help me decide..

$700 represents about 6% of the $11.7K Nikon package..... not significant in my view. A new wife will cost you much much more and dwarf your $11.7K. Stick with the current wife and buy whatever you want (within reason) and remember there are no pockets in a shroud.

 

[fcotterill]

Thanks for sharing this, a timely production, which clears up a couple of niggling uncertainties.
The outlook is positive : the very fast rate of Buffer clearing means in practice in most situations, one will be able to shoot in decent bursts to allow buffer clearing. [In military parlance with a LMG, double taps or sustained bursts to conserve ammo and extend time between barrel swops]

For many wildlife photographers, Sony Tough and the other cards Ricci rates as 'Great' will work very well. Another factor is not all cards may have the physical toughness and warranty etc of brands such as Delkin Black.

We can expect the situation will change within months with faster cards, and more competition between CFExpress card brands to tamp down costs. And Yes! Hopefully, Ricci releases his comparisons of RAW formats soon.

Important Note, the new Nikon RAW compression is different from the previous NEF format (protocol), and the new compression is probably using TICO-RAW.

Ricci clarifies buffer vs Raw file type.

 

[MarcS]

Also, CFEXPRESS cards are going to be faster and faster. Relying on the card speed is the right call in my opinion.

 

[John Navitsky]

Also, CFEXPRESS cards are going to be faster and faster. Relying on the card speed is the right call in my opinion.

To a point. Max theoretical is 2000MB/s, so... less than that.

 

[DaleJr]

As far as if the Z9 will make my photos 250% better than what they are now, I see some potential for that happening.

Agree better than any "legacy" camera, but I can't see it being 250% better than a possible future Z90. The biggest problem now, is waiting for the possibility of this Z90 being released. I will start saving now, and if my savings reach the amount to purchase a Z9 before that happens, then I might just pull the trigger on a Z9.

just like we wouldn't but a 600/f4 or 800/f-whatever

For me, this is the reason not to purchase a Z9 and hold off for a Z90. Use that the savings not purchasing a Z9 and put that towards a z 400mm f/2.8.

 

[arbitrage]

It will be interested to see detailed reviews on the quality of the files in the two compressed modes. Nikon claims “ imperceptible “ loss in quality from full raw to HE *.
Does anyone know what other frame rates are available? 20 fps is great for fast action but overkill for a lot of what I shoot. Is there a 10-14 fps option?

Ricci showed the FPS menus in his first Z9 video at the 3:46 mark. CL can be set in 1FPS increments from 1-10. CH can be set at either 10, 12, 15 or 20

 

[fcotterill]

In IG post, Konstantin Konchin, Grays of Westminster mentioned older D6 battery charger MH26a fits but will not charge the new ENEL18d of Z9
(presumably applies to 3rd party versions of older charger).

 

[John Navitsky]

wrt a dx version, keep in mind that means they have to build a new stacked sensor which is a huge investment. maybe they’ll do that, but it would be a lot less work and less investment to drop the exceed 7 into a body that uses a conventional sensor and shutter (z6iii, z7iii). i guess we’ll see (eventually)

 

[fcotterill]

Excellent point, the Expeed7 will enable the dual channels for Autofocus AND higher EVF refresh rate

wrt a dx version, keep in mind that means they have to build a new stacked sensor which is a huge investment. maybe they’ll do that, but it would be a lot less work and less investment to drop the exceed 7 into a body that uses a conventional sensor and shutter (z6iii, z7iii). i guess we’ll see (eventually)

 

[fcotterill]

Get the Delkin CFExpr cards for action photography.

Get the Lexar and Sandisk to heat up your coffee when out shooting with your Z9 in the cold:

1. Insert CFexpress card into your camera;
2. Simply shoot a long series of anything at high frame rate until card is full;
3. Open card slot cover Very carefully drop the hot card into your coffee mug;
4. Remove card with forceps (or tongs), dry carefully, and repeat above 3 steps until the liquid reaches the right temperature
5. Savour your warming beverage waiting for the swallows to fly by to record on your Delkin CFExpress Card(s)

Delkin Black CF Express Type B 512GB Memory Card Review – Incomparable Sustained Write Speeds and Low Temps - The SSD Review

In late 2020, Canon introduced the EOS R5 mirrorless camera and that set off a frenzy of companies r

www.thessdreview.com

 

[iustin]

Get the Delkin CFExpr cards for action photography.

Delkin Black CF Express Type B 512GB Memory Card Review – Incomparable Sustained Write Speeds and Low Temps - The SSD Review

In late 2020, Canon introduced the EOS R5 mirrorless camera and that set off a frenzy of companies r

www.thessdreview.com

Interesting link, thank you. A bit academic for me, as neither Delkin black not Prograde Cobalt seem to be available here in Switzerland.

And I know that the Sony Tough I have right now get pretty hot even in the card reader :/

 

[fcotterill]

The Z9 appears to be significantly more than a D3-types Schumpeterian Revolution....

An incredible number of Nikon Z9 pre-orders received - easily surpasses the D700/D800/D850 - is this the most successful Nikon camera ever sold? - Nikon Rumors

I have been in contact with several retailers around the globe and I received the same feedback – the interest and pre-order numbers for the new Nikon Z9 have already surpassed the D700, D800, and D850 pre-orders madness from a few years ago. This is all great, but in 2021 we still have to deal […]

nikonrumors.com

It will be interesting to read a more accurate translation....but clearly a revolutionary camera for the industry - let alone Nikon - as the ILC market shrinks BUT in a maturing FX Mirrorless market :
shared by an industry engineer in Tokyo - https://nikongear.net/revival/index.php?action=post;quote=177194;topic=10206.90;last_msg=177206
Re: Z9 Release Thread
« Reply #103 on: October 31, 2021, 19:13:34 »
Quote
"This Japanese YouTuber is an retired engineer who apparently had worked for Panasonic until fairly recently. He whole-heartedly admires the Nikon managers and engineers for having developed technologies incorporated into Z9."

(His narration is Japanese.)
He suspects that the sensor was made by Tower Semiconductor which originally was part of Panasonic.

https://towersemi.com/

 

[zule11]

An incredible number of Nikon Z9 pre-orders received – easily surpasses the D700/D800/D850 – is this the most successful Nikon camera ever sold?

An incredible number of Nikon Z9 pre-orders received - easily surpasses the D700/D800/D850 - is this the most successful Nikon camera ever sold? - Nikon Rumors

I have been in contact with several retailers around the globe and I received the same feedback – the interest and pre-order numbers for the new Nikon Z9 have already surpassed the D700, D800, and D850 pre-orders madness from a few years ago. This is all great, but in 2021 we still have to deal […]

nikonrumors.com

Upcoming Nikon Z9 live events

Upcoming Nikon Z9 live events - Nikon Rumors

Nikon Z9 live event at B&H: Monday, November 1, 2021, 12:00 PM ET – 1:30 PM ET. Nikon Z9 discussions with Thom Hogan and Nikon Ambassador Michelle Valberg at Paul’s Photo – multiple events, see the full scheduled here. Nikon Z9 mirrorless event with Joe McNally at Service Photo: Friday, November...

nikonrumors.com

 

[fcotterill]

Useful Size comparisons (from twitter)

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