Nikon Z8

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Tom Reynolds said:
For the D-500/500pf and the D-500/200-500 crowd, is a Z-8 @ 2+ pounds the answer? Either camera gives you 750mm effective reach in a 6-7# combined weight and a price below $5000. I agree that those specs are not what a professional photographer or even a super serious entheusist would choose but it is a good sweet spot for and decent amature that likes to go take birds and wildlife picures in interesting natural locations.

How does the Z-8 fit in?

How about a Z-8/Z 100-400 zoom and a TC-2.0?. The lens is $2400, the Z TC is $600 and lets say the body is $4000. That is a 5.8-6.0 rig for $7000, a bit high but maybe worth the stretch. We don't know how it will balance. However, we could put an 800PF prime on it for a 7.2- 7.4 # rig @ about $10,400 and get better pictures when at the 800mm reach. Or we can ditch the TC and shoot in DX mode saving $600 and .6# for a $6400 combo at about 5.2-5.4# but an effective reach of 600mm.

Compare that with a Sony A1/200-600zoom and a TC 1.4. That bdy is $6500, lens $1900 and TC $550 for a total of almost $9000 for a 6.7# rig. I saw this rig in action and it looked serious front heavy. We could put a $13K 600mm on it but that and $6500 camera gets us way out of our price range but definitely great pictures.

So my conclusion is that the Z-8 is a very good alternative either in the zoom or prime configuration but really needs a stretching of the wallet as do the A1 combo. In terms of price, we are nowhere near the $5000 I paid for my D-500/500pf and the 200-500 zoom combo is currently less than $3K.


So what are my alternatives?

Canon R-7/100-500. One shouldnt complain about a 32MP cropped sensor in a 4.5# combo at $4100. but one can complain about a non-stacked sensor and rolling shutter while carrying around that much heavier wallet.

OM Systems OM-1 with either a 100-400 or 150-400 zoom. The problem here is the 20MP 2.0 Cropped sensor but the sensor is BSI Stached. With the 100-400 the rig is cheap ($3400) and light, below 4# and with the 150-400 it is not so light (6#) and not so cheap ($9500).

Fuji X-H2S/200-600. Ah, a 26MP BSI Stacked1.4 crop sensor and a 200-600 lens @ $4300. Is this not the D-500 replacement? Well Thom Hogan says "almost but not quite". It seems that dispite multiple firmware updates, the AF and subject ID is not up to the other choices.

Tom
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Right now I have the D500/200-500 combo and its nice. But I want better AF, eye tracking, more FPS, better sensor ( or bigger ) and so...

To me there are three options:
1.- Buy the Z8 and use the 200-500 with a FTZ adapter at first to change it in the future with the promised 200-600
2.- Go to Sony maybe a A9 with the 200-600 or the rumored new APSC that I've seen in rumor sites
3.- Wait and stay in APSC with a future Nikon Z90/Z500 not even announced

Who knows, lot of alternatives
 
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Aeron said:
Right now I have the D500/200-500 combo and its nice. But I want better AF, eye tracking, more FPS, better sensor ( or bigger ) and so...

To me there are three options:
1.- Buy the Z8 and use the 200-500 with a FTZ adapter at first to change it in the future with the promised 200-600
2.- Go to Sony maybe a A9 with the 200-600 or the rumored new APSC that I've seen in rumor sites
3.- Wait and stay in APSC with a future Nikon Z90/Z500 not even announced

Who knows, lot of alternatives
Click to expand...

There are better options than these. At 500mm the D-500 is a 750 equ setup and you will need to shoot in crop mode with the Z-8 to get the same reach. Are you OK with this?

I would NOT go to a Sony A9/200-600 because I think that the OM-1/100-400 is a much better choice and somewhat cheaper, lighter and more compact. The A9 family is full frame at 24MP and is BSI stacked but so is the OM-1 @ 20mp. To get 800mm reach on the Sony you will need to crop and the overall shot will be comparable to the OM-1 @ 400mm. The Sony can shoot @ 20 f/s while the OM-1 can do 25 F/s with this lens. The Sony's buffer is larger. The OM-1 cross-sensor technology probably acquires focus faster but the A9ii may have less oof shots in a burst. The main difference is that the OM-1 combo is over 2# lighter.

Wait for the Z-8 and the 200-600 makes sense as long as you are young. I am not.

Tom
 
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Tom Reynolds said:
There are better options than these. At 500mm the D-500 is a 750 equ setup and you will need to shoot in crop mode with the Z-8 to get the same reach. Are you OK with this?

I would NOT go to a Sony A9/200-600 because I think that the OM-1/100-400 is a much better choice and somewhat cheaper, lighter and more compact. The A9 family is full frame at 24MP and is BSI stacked but so is the OM-1 @ 20mp. To get 800mm reach on the Sony you will need to crop and the overall shot will be comparable to the OM-1 @ 400mm. The Sony can shoot @ 20 f/s while the OM-1 can do 25 F/s with this lens. The Sony's buffer is larger. The OM-1 cross-sensor technology probably acquires focus faster but the A9ii may have less oof shots in a burst. The main difference is that the OM-1 combo is over 2# lighter.

Wait for the Z-8 and the 200-600 makes sense as long as you are young. I am not.

Tom
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IMO the AR7v is a better choice than either.
 
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We will all know within a week the detail if the Z8 specification.

It is possible Nikon will not be 100% specific with a few details - to keep Internet speculation on full heat :)

Nikon are having "demo" days at UK retailers in the first week of June - with a late June first delivery a strong favourite.
 
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Tom Reynolds said:
So what are my alternatives?

Canon R-7/100-500. One shouldnt complain about a 32MP cropped sensor in a 4.5# combo at $4100. but one can complain about a non-stacked sensor and rolling shutter while carrying around that much heavier wallet.

OM Systems OM-1 with either a 100-400 or 150-400 zoom. The problem here is the 20MP 2.0 Cropped sensor but the sensor is BSI Stached. With the 100-400 the rig is cheap ($3400) and light, below 4# and with the 150-400 it is not so light (6#) and not so cheap ($9500).

Fuji X-H2S/200-600. Ah, a 26MP BSI Stacked1.4 crop sensor and a 200-600 lens @ $4300. Is this not the D-500 replacement? Well Thom Hogan says "almost but not quite". It seems that dispite multiple firmware updates, the AF and subject ID is not up to the other choices.

Tom
Click to expand...

I don't know much about the R7/100-500.

The OM-1 with 100-400mm is a downgrade for the D500/200-500mm f5.6 crowd from an image quality point of view. It only makes sense if you have trouble carrying something like the OM-1 and 300mm f4.

Everything I've seen out of the Fuji 200-600mm makes me think that lens is a bit of a dud.
 
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Andy Miller Photo UK said:
It is so nice to see a well reasoned argument -- please avoid just spouting brand fanism
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Perhaps you should try and sort your facts out before making unfounded allegations: I've never used a Sony camera in my life, and have only used Nikon, and hope to continue using Nikon I to the future. If you bothered to look at photos I've posted here and on my Flickr page you would see thaflt.

I was just saying that going by the specs, on paper, the A7Rv seems to be a closer match to the type of camera we are talking about, than the A9 or the Olympus OM-1: If that's wrong then please provide your "well reasoned argument", rather than childish sarcasm.
 
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JoelKlein said:
I’m curious if the Z8 would load the .bin from the Z9.
Having to reconfigure from scratch is a pain
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I highly doubt it.

In the past Nikon hasn't maintained identical register structures nor .bin compatibility between different camera models. Unless the feature sets are identical and the software and hardware memory structures are identical you wouldn't be able to copy configurations saved from one camera body onto a different model camera.
 
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Whiskeyman said:
275-shot battery life for the rumored Z8? Vs 700 for the Z9? Something just ain't right there... Or am I missing something?
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The Z9 uses a substantially larger battery than the EN-EL15 series battery that would fit in the smaller Z8 form factor. But I wouldn't take that battery life prediction too seriously as it's at best an estimate and likely an estimate of CIPA battery ratings that tend to be very conservative especially for mirrorless cameras based on their testing protocols.

I suspect the Z8 will support an optional vertical shooting grip to hold either extra EN-EL15 batteries or to hold the larger EN-EL18 as most of Nikon's recent pro-sumer models do. That would extend the battery life but also get you back to the larger form factor that some folks don't like about the Z9.
 
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Doomrider74 said:
What situations is it "unusable" in?
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It's well covered in a dedicated thread, link appended, and in parallel to this thread, there's also the long winding thread as to whether to switch brands, ie cameras.

The over riding decision here is whether a Nikonian chooses a Z8 and/or Z9. If the Z8 rumours are correct, a Stacked Sensor (performance at lowered cost) is the new criterion for a high-end MILC to qualify for action genres.

For those considering the Sony A7R5

I rented one a couple months ago and it is indeed a great camera. If I went all Sony I would get one. Currently I use Nikon D850 with a range of focal lengths plus a Sony A7IV for their 200-600 lens. I can't afford to switch completely plus I love my D850's too much, BUT if I did switch the A7RV...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
 
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fcotterill said:
It's well covered in a dedicated thread, link appended, and in parallel to this thread, there's also the long winding thread as to whether to switch brands, ie cameras.

The over riding decision here is whether a Nikonian chooses a Z8 and/or Z9. If the Z8 rumours are correct, a Stacked Sensor (performance at lowered cost) is the new criterion for a high-end MILC to qualify for action genres.

For those considering the Sony A7R5

I rented one a couple months ago and it is indeed a great camera. If I went all Sony I would get one. Currently I use Nikon D850 with a range of focal lengths plus a Sony A7IV for their 200-600 lens. I can't afford to switch completely plus I love my D850's too much, BUT if I did switch the A7RV...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll have a read of that.
 
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Doomrider74 said:
Fair enough. From my perspective, that wouldn't bother me as I don't do video, but I can see it might be an issue for others.
Click to expand...
Ok, rolling shutter is a problem even for photos. When you use cameras with non-stacked sensors in electronic shutter mode, shooting action, BIF etc is a big challenge as you will see distorted wings etc. This means you are forced to use the camera in mechanical shutter and in MS, you lose the FPS and the viewfinder stutter makes it difficult to track.
 
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StefanSC said:
I don't know much about the R7/100-500.

The OM-1 with 100-400mm is a downgrade for the D500/200-500mm f5.6 crowd from an image quality point of view. It only makes sense if you have trouble carrying something like the OM-1 and 300mm f4.

Everything I've seen out of the Fuji 200-600mm makes me think that lens is a bit of a dud.
Click to expand...
'The OM-1 with 100-400mm is a downgrade for the D500/200-500mm f5.6 crowd from an image quality point of view."

I switch from the D-500/500pf to the OM-1/100-400 did not see a downgrade. Both setups take great pictures but neither will come close to a FF camera with a 600 F4 lens. The main difference was that I was unable to get the eye with the D-500 combo with BIF as the closest part of the bird is the sharpest (GRP AF) but the OM-1 would usually focus on the eye. I also found that following the BIF was easier with the OM-1 because of the reduced weight and getting the bird in focus was easier with the OM-1 because the camera would focus on the bird and pick up the eye anywhere in the frame.

Your mileage may vary.

Tom
 
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fcotterill said:
Nikonian chooses a Z8
Click to expand...
fcotterill said:
It's well covered in a dedicated thread, link appended, and in parallel to this thread, there's also the long winding thread as to whether to switch brands, ie cameras.

The over riding decision here is whether a Nikonian chooses a Z8 and/or Z9. If the Z8 rumours are correct, a Stacked Sensor (performance at lowered cost) is the new criterion for a high-end MILC to qualify for action genres.

For those considering the Sony A7R5

I rented one a couple months ago and it is indeed a great camera. If I went all Sony I would get one. Currently I use Nikon D850 with a range of focal lengths plus a Sony A7IV for their 200-600 lens. I can't afford to switch completely plus I love my D850's too much, BUT if I did switch the A7RV...
bcgforums.com bcgforums.com
Click to expand...
It is certainly hard to go back to a non-stacked sensor or DSLR once you have tasted the uninterrupted view during active shutter release from a stacked sensor camera for action shooting.

The only camera that comes close in a non-stacked form is the Canon R5 with its best of class read speeds for a non-stacked sensor. Still the view while actively firing is not as good and smooth as the stacked cameras (A9, A9II, A1, R3, Z9, OM-1, Fuji whatever).

As I mentioned in that thread you linked, I've been super impressed with the A7RV AF. But having to shoot it in blackout MF to avoid distortions and get 10FPS is just too much for me to overcome when I've shot mostly stacked sensors since May 2018 with the A9.
 
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I am a D500/500PF shooter with a Z6ii, 100-400 and 24-120 looking to replace the D500. I think the biggest gain for me will be a no blackout view finder. I was really hoping for something closer to the Z7 with a no blackout stacked sensor closer to the $3,500 price point. 10 to 15 fps would work for me and I doubt I will ever shoot 8k. I will likely experiment with the 120fps in both stills and video. Calling the Z8 a mini (anything) doesn't seem to fit. It is more camera than I want/need, but it is still the least expensive path for me to a no blackout setup. Most reviews I have read about the Z9 make me believe the 500PF should work fine on the Z8. I don't like the idea of using an adaptor and adding a TC on top of the adaptor spooks me, but until the 200-600 comes out or I can get an 800, this will likely be my setup. Waited long enough, my order is in at the local shop. Fingers crossed.
 
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