Z9 Firmware 3.0 Released

[MatthewK]

From my initial outings, Subject Detect feels a bit less sticky, and has more of a tendency to wander off the detected bird. Shooting in 3D Tracking (on shutter button) and Wide Area (Small). Both modes felt a little uncertain compared to 2.11. Another observation: there were instances where if I didn't have the AF box exactly over the subject, and there was an object closer to me (a twig/leaf), the AF would pick it up instead of jumping to the background, which tells me that it's now more sensitive to objects in the path, and this is a good thing.

So it feels like they traded some AF stickiness for more nimbleness. I adjusted blocked shooting from the default middle setting up a few notches (more sticky) to see if that helps.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

Well that bug showed up today on my Z9, didn't get it yesterday when I tried.

@gdecamp It seems to be only in Wide Area modes with subject detection off or not detected. George I think the only "handoff 3D" is with the shutter button correct? I am not able to use say LN1 for another area mode and handoff to 3D. I was hoping this could be a workaround.

 

[thelordofthelight]

@MatthewK This is strange. Didn't the fw release notes say just the opposite? Like much stickier AF/ subject detection in 3d, wide AF area modes? With fw 2.1, some of us noticed significant AF improvements with auto area AF so I was thinking may be Nikon added similar algorithms to 3D and Wide area. The release note also mentions about improvements when shooting against busy backgrounds which means it shouldn't wander...

 

[fcotterill]

I only every use BBAF, which is usually set to 3D with SR (Animals only). RSF [Hold] on Fn3 can toggle SR off. I still use a 7x3 as the main CA1 and Single-point as C2. After much experimenting I find this combination works reliably and once locked one 3D then takes over capably for optimal framing etc. For running/flying subjects my default is AutoAF+AFOn

However, from tests, yesterday and today, I also suspect Close-Focus priority is improved (in 3D, CA, and AutoAF has always had the best CFP. Further, perhaps the AF ability with FW3.0 is to pull back to the background horizon to a closer subject, for birds of decent size in the EVF but SR and suprisingly the eyes are being picked at remarkable distances on the latter subjects over longer distances.

My realistic take on any FW 3.0 is the Z9 has not changed fundamentally. It's still the same MILC AF system lacking cross-type sensors. And I confirmed this deliberately focusing on what I know is a tough subject in my garden, which always need tilting the camera.

So I don't hesitate to toggle AF modes - business -as-usual - 1 wheel+3-4 buttons And for cluttered/tricky subjects it's often simpler and quicker to just recall AF or just MF with focus-peaking.

@MatthewK This is strange. Didn't the fw release notes say just the opposite? Like much stickier AF/ subject detection in 3d, wide AF area modes? With fw 2.1, some of us noticed significant AF improvements with auto area AF so I was thinking may be Nikon added similar algorithms to 3D and Wide area. The release note also mentions about improvements when shooting against busy backgrounds which means it shouldn't wander...

 

[gdecamp]

@gdecamp It seems to be only in Wide Area modes with subject detection off or not detected. George I think the only "handoff 3D" is with the shutter button correct? I am not able to use say LN1 for another area mode and handoff to 3D. I was hoping this could be a workaround.

Yesterday I tried Subject detection on Animal, AF On button programmed to 3D and AF ON and shutter button programmed to Auto Area and AF ON and it was fine (see prior post by me when someone asked). Today I still had it set up that way but before I switched it I tried it again and got the problem. Yesterday I was shooting hummingbirds at close range, today the birds were at a distance so that was all I tried. Not sure about your other question. I had great results today with shutter button on 3D and back bottom on WA Large or small with AF on. Basically the way I normally shoot. Other than that issue I don't see any other problems but I didn't try everything.

 

[fcotterill]

Custom Settings SitRep for today with "C" FW3.0:
Further tweaks since resetting the DISPLAY button to Playback (so much easier for EVF checks I find when shooting horizontal), now DISPLAY Cycling is assigned to the "Vertical multi selector" button.
I also find the 'QUAL' button can be set to Release Mode.

Even when handholding a telephoto, thanks to this "C" FW 3.0, I can still drive almost all vital custom settings as one finger can scroll to the new choice on the command dial.

C: f6 = On is the Trick here - 'Release button to use dial' allows right hand only changing on the go.... '. Swift Press with right thumb - Forget&Scroll

 

[MatthewK]

@MatthewK This is strange. Didn't the fw release notes say just the opposite? Like much stickier AF/ subject detection in 3d, wide AF area modes? With fw 2.1, some of us noticed significant AF improvements with auto area AF so I was thinking may be Nikon added similar algorithms to 3D and Wide area. The release note also mentions about improvements when shooting against busy backgrounds which means it shouldn't wander...

Yes, release notes say exactly the opposite. Just my observation so far, that the AF doesn't feel as "sure" as it did w/ 2.11. I'm going to shoot a lot more this weekend and see how things go.

 

[jpgrove]

Yesterday I tried Subject detection on Animal, AF On button programmed to 3D and AF ON and shutter button programmed to Auto Area and AF ON and it was fine (see prior post by me when someone asked). Today I still had it set up that way but before I switched it I tried it again and got the problem. Yesterday I was shooting hummingbirds at close range, today the birds were at a distance so that was all I tried. Not sure about your other question. I had great results today with shutter button on 3D and back bottom on WA Large or small with AF on. Basically the way I normally shoot. Other than that issue I don't see any other problems but I didn't try everything.

I have a feeling this is not a bug, in that if 3d doesn't have a target to lock onto then it will hunt? isn't that what its designed to do? I am pretty confused :-( I did however encounter a GUI error, so reset the camera and re did my settings and all is good. I suppose resetting after an update is generally good practice?

 

[John Navitsky]

Brad Hill has just posted a brief paragraph on changes to "recall shooting functions" which is interesting....

i just got around to reading his blog today and the big thing i noticed is he's running two bodies and is going to keep one old and one new for comparisons.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I have a feeling this is not a bug, in that if 3d doesn't have a target to lock onto then it will hunt? isn't that what its designed to do? I am pretty confused :-( I did however encounter a GUI error, so reset the camera and re did my settings and all is good. I suppose resetting after an update is generally good practice?

Sorry about the GUI error. It may not be a bug, but it is different than 2.1 and why is it only certain modes such as WA and Auto. Also, I have my camera set to indicate focus in those modes, so there must be a "target" similar to dynamic, and why does it hunt in WA but not dynamic. So it's a mystery still, at least to me.

 

[John Navitsky]

I have a feeling this is not a bug, in that if 3d doesn't have a target to lock onto then it will hunt? isn't that what its designed to do? I am pretty confused :-( I did however encounter a GUI error, so reset the camera and re did my settings and all is good. I suppose resetting after an update is generally good practice?

that's a good point. i think one way to test this would be to turn off subject detection and you'd think it would stop hunting

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

that's a good point. i think one way to test this would be to turn off subject detection and you'd think it would stop hunting

It's when subject detection is off or doesn't engage that it hunts. It works fine if a subject is detected.

 

[ButlerKid]

that's a good point. i think one way to test this would be to turn off subject detection and you'd think it would stop hunting

Steve has mentioned that Subj Dectection will "take over" other AF area modes. That's why he recommends turning OFF Subject Detection if it isn't working.

Page 171 from Steve's Set up Guide

"Anytime subject detection takes over, it overrides the normal behavior of the AF area in use."

 

[ButlerKid]

Anyone playing around with the "Burst" playback settings? Sounds good - is it? Does s/w like Adobe, DxO, Capture One, etc recognize the images in a group?

 

[ButlerKid]

Anyone playing around with the "Burst" playback settings? Sounds good - is it? Does s/w like Adobe, DxO, Capture One, etc recognize the images in a group?

I guess in post processing we would still need to rely on the time stamp to ID groups........

This appears to be just a "chimping" feature.

 

[JamesFarrell]

From my initial outings, Subject Detect feels a bit less sticky, and has more of a tendency to wander off the detected bird. Shooting in 3D Tracking (on shutter button) and Wide Area (Small). Both modes felt a little uncertain compared to 2.11. Another observation: there were instances where if I didn't have the AF box exactly over the subject, and there was an object closer to me (a twig/leaf), the AF would pick it up instead of jumping to the background, which tells me that it's now more sensitive to objects in the path, and this is a good thing.

So it feels like they traded some AF stickiness for more nimbleness. I adjusted blocked shooting from the default middle setting up a few notches (more sticky) to see if that helps.

For what it's worth, Hogan's eBook version 2.00 which applies to Z9 FW 2.X cites comments about custom a3 (Focus tracking AF Lock on) that if you’re using 3D-tracking, Blocked shot AF response is always set to 3, no matter what you might change in this setting. I don't know if this is the same under FW 3.0

 

[Nimi]

At the same time 3.0 was released Nikon also replaced the N-Log 3D LUT Ver 1.03 with a much better one, 1.04. The older version crushed blacks, was oversaturated and a pain to correct and grade. I think it was a worked-over Z6 LUT. The new version is a pleasure to work with.

Here is a quick comparison between them using a clip from a client assignment. Very little if any correction applied: N-Log ---> Rec. 709 ---> graded output.

 

[Dave Stargazer]

At the same time 3.0 was released Nikon also replaced the N-Log 3D LUT Ver 1.03 with a much better one, 1.04. The older version crushed blacks, was oversaturated and a pain to correct and grade. I think it was a worked-over Z6 LUT. The new version is a pleasure to work with.

Here is a quick comparison between them using a clip from a client assignment. Very little if any correction applied: N-Log ---> Rec. 709 ---> graded output.

Wow - excellent improvement. Thanks for the heads up

 

[agrumpyoldsod]

I updated my Z9 settings spreadsheet to incorporate V3.0 -- you can access it via this link -- please View OR Download the file.

 

[MartyD]

I updated my Z9 settings spreadsheet to incorporate V3.0 -- you can access it via this link -- please View OR Download the file.

Excellent, thanks! Wouldn't it be nice if there was software that could pull all of these settings from the Z9 allow you to change them and then save them back to the camera.

 

[JamesFarrell]

I guess in post processing we would still need to rely on the time stamp to ID groups........

This appears to be just a "chimping" feature.

I think you’re right; just a Playback feature with the Z9.

I recall back when I used Lightroom years ago that you could set up an auto-stack of images depending on some time interval that you specify. I use Capture One now and I cannot find a way to do that currently. But perhaps someone better versed in the fine points of CP-1 knows how to do this.

 

[Hooligans Imagery]

I guess in post processing we would still need to rely on the time stamp to ID groups........

This appears to be just a "chimping" feature.

NX Studio does some grouping but haven’t figured out exactly how to make use of it.
I like NX for review for now. I have learned that it doesn’t show you the burst setting though. Like 10 or 120 etc.

 

[simo]

Started to read this discussion and yesterday night I updated to 3.0
I had a go today with the 600FL and I did not like it at all compared to the 2.1
On perching birds, the 3d (on AF-on) was so unrealiable. Several times going on the branch and staying there.
Wide large too, looks don't see the eye as before with the 2.1.
The wierdest was , I set the DISP button to Dynamic small+AF on , when I press, it start as a "3d" and after a moment start to be Dynamic!!
With the native 28 2.8, instead I don't have these issues. I have my photos of birds on the wall, and even from distance, see the eye and stick to it.
Same with the Z 70-200 2.8. Is fast and great to see the eyes.

Today I had so many missed shots because of the eye detection

Is it possible to roll back firmware?

I'm going to reset the camera, and spend the afternoon to set it up again without load the file with the setting.
Disappointed

 

[jpgrove]

Started to read this discussion and yesterday night I updated to 3.0
I had a go today with the 600FL and I did not like it at all compared to the 2.1
On perching birds, the 3d (on AF-on) was so unrealiable. Several times going on the branch and staying there.
Wide large too, looks don't see the eye as before with the 2.1.
The wierdest was , I set the DISP button to Dynamic small+AF on , when I press, it start as a "3d" and after a moment start to be Dynamic!!
With the native 28 2.8, instead I don't have these issues. I have my photos of birds on the wall, and even from distance, see the eye and stick to it.
Same with the Z 70-200 2.8. Is fast and great to see the eyes.

Today I had so many missed shots because of the eye detection

Is it possible to roll back firmware?

I'm going to reset the camera, and spend the afternoon to set it up again without load the file with the setting.
Disappointed

Interesting as my experience is the opposite, it’s possible that changes to the algorithms may require some learning on our part. But given the issues some are having with other aspects of V3 I think we may see a minor point release to correct some of the behaviour issues in this latest release. Keep trying and keep us posted

 

[Griffym]

Started to read this discussion and yesterday night I updated to 3.0
I had a go today with the 600FL and I did not like it at all compared to the 2.1
On perching birds, the 3d (on AF-on) was so unrealiable. Several times going on the branch and staying there.
Wide large too, looks don't see the eye as before with the 2.1.
The wierdest was , I set the DISP button to Dynamic small+AF on , when I press, it start as a "3d" and after a moment start to be Dynamic!!
With the native 28 2.8, instead I don't have these issues. I have my photos of birds on the wall, and even from distance, see the eye and stick to it.
Same with the Z 70-200 2.8. Is fast and great to see the eyes.

Today I had so many missed shots because of the eye detection

Is it possible to roll back firmware?

I'm going to reset the camera, and spend the afternoon to set it up again without load the file with the setting.
Disappointed

I used the 3.0 firmware with my 500 F4G plus the TC 1.4II, in poor light (cloudy, light rain, windy) at the beach with tiny migratory Stints (they really are tiny, about 50 grams) They run and dart about. Using Wide area and C1 horizontal wide, the focus was brilliantly fast often following rapidly moving subjects as they dashed about. Often locking on to the eye for a moment or two when they got close.
Later on the way back to the road a two Fantails chased and played in the bushes. A bit too quick for the focal length and a bit too close. Eventually I got several shots of one displaying on a wire fence, but I had to back up a bit. I like 3.0 more than 2.1. So no issues with focus speed or subject detection in that short test.
I wish you luck with sorting out the problems you have.